Is it an Offense in New York to Use a Driver's License Frame

[rushguy]

My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: New York

I was pulled over on Oct 12, 2010 and givin a ticket for No Distinctive plate/insecure/dirty (that's how it's written under 'Description of violation') because i have a plastic dealer advertisment thing aroudn the edge of my license plates. I've read the law, and i believe it is intended to prevent people from having damaged plates, mud/snow covered plates, or those redlight camera defeating plastic covers over the plates.... not the little plastic license plate holders that dealers give out.

Additionally, today i got supporting deposition that they are going to admit my statement:

"Subject did not know why he was stopped. when asked if he knew how fast he was going, he stated that he thought he was going around 55-56mph."

Additional information from the sup dep:
v1 was travelling n/b on sr 12 in the town of turin south of burdicks crossing road as patrol was traveling s/b. v1 was traveling 70 mph in a 55mph zone. operator of v1 was also in violation of section 402.1 of the NYS VAT law for having a plastic license plate cover over his back license plate. The NYS VAT law states, "number plates shall be kept clean and in a condition so as to be easily readable and shall not be covered by glass or any plastic material'.

Charge is not for speeding, which i wasn't, i had my wife and kids in the car, and rarely find myself more than 1 or 2 mph over any limit. but it sounds like they'd like to say i was speeding too?! under number 7. on the sup dep it says ' Charge based on officer's DIRECT OBSERVATION'

Now... i was driving my wife's jeep (registered in her name)

The jeep is registered in New Hampshire - where our legal residence is.

So i'd like to motion for dismissal based on VAT law 250.1

If they say i'm speeding.... i'm innocent until proven guilty right? i WASN"T speeding! I was just on a rural road at night on a section of road with a lot of bars and i think the officer was looking for a drunk driver/easy out of state ticket? Going to trial dec 19th. i already went once and plead not guilty.

[Speedy Gonzalez]

If you were not ticketed for speed, it's unlikely that they will add the charge. Never, and I mean NEVER admit to going over the speed limit. "55, Sir" is your answer. Not 55-56.

The officer clearly made a mistake in charging you if it was an advertising trim ring, because these do not COVER the plate. They are designed in such a fashion as to not interfere with the plate number, and in most states the registration tags.

Take pictures of your rear license plate from multiple angles and bring them with you to court. Before introducing the pictures into evidence, ask the officer if he can describe the "cover" that he cited you for. Ask to admit the pictures. Ask the officer if that is the same cover you were cited for. Ask the judge for a dismissal.

[rushguy]

Yes, i realize my mistake now in my reply to the officer, thank you for that, it's good advice for sure (except for the 'sir' part.... it was a ma'am!! lol)!

NY SP often cites people for these covers, i don't know why though, as you said they don't interfere with anything, and don't violate the intent of the law, just the verbiage (i suppose).

As for taking pictures, this ticket was in 2010..... we've since removed and thrown away the dealer plate holder thing, and any pictures that i take now, would be over a year after the fact....

i DO have some pictures of the jeep with it on though, and it clearly doesn't impede the reading of the plate. I'll bring those and offer those as evidence, thanks for the advice.

Anyone familiar with VAT 250.1....? Can't i use THAT as a basis for asking for a dismissal, as i'm from out of state, and i'm not the registered owner of the vehicle?

To whoever re-titled my post... thanks.... i wasn't sure what to call it?

[jk]

does the plate trim cover ANY information such as the state name or expiration or anything else that might be important on the plate? If so, then the plate was obscured.

[rushguy]

Nope, the plate was completely un-obstructed as far as 'important stuff' it was just a dealer plate holder. similar to the one 2nd from the right in THIS picture: http://www.google.com/imgres?q=deale...1t:429,r:2,s:0

Although the law DOES say 'not to be covered in plastic' except for EZ Pass etc etc... however i feel like the spirit of the law was to prevent people from putting those red-light camera defeating covers on.... not the dealer plate 'holders' such as i had. My question is.... car isn't registered to me, it's not registered in NY.... can i get this dismissed? how? It just doesn't seem feasible to me that whenever i drive through the US, i have to stop at every state border and read up on their laws before continuing on?! I've always obeyed the law, this is VERY frustrating!

Still wondering if asking for a dismissal based on VAT Law 250 is viable? Anyone from NY here?

Quoting New York Code, Vehicles and Traffic, Article 3, Sec. 250(1). Exemption of non-resident owners and operators.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. Except as otherwise provided in subdivision three of this section, the provisions of this chapter relative to the registration and equipment of motor vehicles, motorcycles and trailers and the display of registration numbers shall not apply to a motor vehicle, motorcycle or trailer owned by a non-resident of this state, provided that the owner thereof shall have complied with the provisions of the law of the foreign country, state, territory or federal district of his residence relative to registration and equipment of such motor vehicle, motorcycle or trailer, as the case may be, and the display of registration numbers thereon, and shall conspicuously display his registration numbers as required thereby. However, except for a vehicle owned by a person who has obtained a waiver pursuant to the provisions of paragraph b of subdivision three of this section, with respect to such vehicle, the provisions of this subdivision shall be operative as to a motor vehicle, motorcycle or trailer owned by a non-resident of this state only to the extent that under the laws of the foreign country, state, territory or federal district of his residence like exemptions and privileges are granted to motor vehicles, motorcycles and trailers duly registered under the laws of and owned by residents of this state. A person, firm, association or corporation having a place of business in a foreign country, state, territory or federal district and owning a motor vehicle, motorcycle or trailer used in connection with and garaged at such place of business which such owner is compelled to register in such foreign jurisdiction shall be deemed a resident of such foreign jurisdiction and a non-resident of this state within the meaning of this subdivision for the purpose of enjoying the privileges of this subdivision with respect to such vehicle.

In case a non-resident becomes a resident of this state, he shall be entitled for a period not exceeding thirty days from the date he becomes a resident to the same exemption from registering his vehicles in this state as he would have enjoyed had he remained a non-resident.

[Who'sThatGuy]

How did you make out?

If the plate thingamajig is legal in the registered state, then it is legal in all 50 states.

Port Authority Police of NY&NJ give tickets out at all of the Hudson river crossings to vehicles registered in Florida for tinted windows. The PA police know that they can't legally write that ticket, but there hope is that the person mails the ticket back with a payment.

[jk]

rushguy;577228]Nope, the plate was completely un-obstructed as far as 'important stuff' it was just a dealer plate holder. similar to the one 2nd from the right in THIS picture:

even that trim covers some important info on some states plates. Without seeing it actually on a plate, I could not say whether it would cover something in your situation or not.

Although the law DOES say 'not to be covered in plastic' except for EZ Pass etc etc... however i feel like the spirit of the law was to prevent people from putting those red-light camera defeating covers on.... not the dealer plate 'holders' such as i had.

Nope. The law was put in place because plastic covers tend to obscure the plate in all situations. They reflect light so when trying to read the plate, it makes it more difficult. They also discolor which is considered an obscuration as well

.My question is.... car isn't registered to me, it's not registered in NY.... can i get this dismissed? how? It just doesn't seem feasible to me that whenever i drive through the US, i have to stop at every state border and read up on their laws before continuing on?! I've always obeyed the law, this is VERY frustrating!

there are certain laws that you must follow, even if it is not the registered state. Most laws, such as the plate trim or tinted windows issues are controlled by the home state though.

cruise to the bottom of this linked page and scroll to the bottom. You will see what I am speaking about with the info being covered:

http://mwsolutions.us/Distributor_page.html

the plate presentation on the right is illegal in many states

I never would have thought it would go this far but there was actually a case in the US Supreme Court regarding what can and cannot be covered on a licence plate in New Hampshire.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0430_0705_ZO.html

I did not read the actual statutes referred to but took the courts summary as adequate:

Since 1969, New Hampshire has required that noncommercial vehicles bear license plates embossed with the state motto, "Live Free or Die." ^[n1]N.H.Rev.Stat.Ann. § 263:1 (Supp. 1975). Another New Hampshire statute makes it a misdemeanor "knowingly [to obscure] . . . the figures or letters on any number plate." N.H.Rev.Stat.Ann. § 262:27-c (Supp. 1975). The term "letters" in this section has been interpreted by the State's highest court to include the state motto. State v. Hoskin, 112 N.H. 332, 295 A.2d 454 (1972).

based on that, nothing on the plate that can be considered to be a figure or letter can be obscured. It would appear the only exception to that would be in the case of that SCOTUS decision. In that case, a driver covered the "live free or die" motto under a claim religious justification. He won based on a first amendment defense.

So, what I read the current state of affairs to be is:

you cannot cover anything on the plate considered to be a letter or number unless you are doing so on an impertinent part of the plate design and you have a valid Constitutional rights claim for covering whatever. So, in this situation, if ANYTHING considered to be a letter or figure is covered, it would be an illegal application of a trim ring.