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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2

    Default Speeding Ticket for VC 22349(A) - Should It Be VC 22350

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    The ticket states I violated CVC 22349(a), over max speed 65. It also states i was traveling 66mph in a 45mph zone, is this the right VC?

    Do i have case to dismiss the ticket? If so guidance would be appreciated.

    City Cop on a motorcycle with radar, i was coming over a hill and sped up to change lanes. The average speed in the "45 zone" is 55mp. It was in the morning light traffic with no cars or pedestrian in front of me. My fine was based on 21mph over the speed limit not 1mph. My court date is 9-6-11.

    Do i have a case to lower the fine?

    I have never fought a ticket and this would be my second ticket within 18 months.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: 66mph in a 45 Zone Vc 22349(A) Should It Be Vc 22350

    Hmmm. None of our CA gurus have answered, so I'll take a whack. If I don't get it right, maybe one of them will fix it. CVC 22349 (a) states:

    Quote Quoting CVC 22349
    (a) Except as provided in Section 22356, no person may drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than 65 miles per hour.
    Note that the law does not say ANYTHING about the "posted speed limit". Since you were driving 66, you were, indeed, driving "greater than 65".

    So, yes, you were charged under a proper statute.

    Good luck,
    Barry
    Where am I going? And why am I in this handbasket?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    626

    Default Re: 66mph in a 45 Zone Vc 22349(A) Should It Be Vc 22350

    The speed trap laws still apply, but only in part. The speed survey is still needed in cases where someone is cited for 22349a/b in prima facie limit zones. In any case, go ahead and file a TBD and post the officer's statement if you lose. Since you will need to post bail as required by TBD rules, you might want to see the judge to find out if you can post a reduced bail or motion for outright dismissal since most radars have a tolerance of +/- 1mph and you were cited for just 1mph above the limit.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: 66mph in a 45 Zone Vc 22349(A) Should It Be Vc 22350

    In addition to what Honking said, your speedometer is also not as accurate as 1mph, especially if it is not digital. I would actually fight this ticket in person if you lose your trial by declaration. If the officer says in court that he cited you under the wrong section or if he brings up anything about the 45mph speed limit, ask the judge to dismiss the case because that's not what you were charged for and you have not prepared for such a defense. If the judge denies your request, ask for retrial where you can come back prepared to defend yourself against this new allegation. An impartial judge will dismiss your case, given the number of problems with this ticket. If the judge is dishonest and you lose the case, your only recourse would be to appeal your case.

    By the way, if your citation is not by mistake, then the officers did not want to charge you under the other code to avoid the speed zone survey clause. The speed limits posted on streets are not hard guidelines since speed zone surveys often bump that speed by another 10mph on average. You were driving at 20mph over and their case would have been stronger against you were you charged under the correct VC.

    I don't think you have provided enough details to see whether this was a speed trap or not. If it was, then there is another reason why your case should be dismissed. Don't ask the judge to lower your fine - ask for dismissal. You might save $50 on this ticket, but you'll still pay over $1000 over three years to your insurance company. The officer does not have a strong case if you prepare properly.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,175

    Default Re: 66mph in a 45 Zone Vc 22349(A) Should It Be Vc 22350

    Quote Quoting Excelsius
    View Post
    The speed limits posted on streets are not hard guidelines since speed zone surveys often bump that speed by another 10mph on average.
    Not even remotely correct but I'm not going to correct you. I'll let someone else do it, if they choose to!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: 66mph in a 45 Zone Vc 22349(A) Should It Be Vc 22350

    You're right. I should say on average from what I have seen regarding my own cases. I don't know the statistics for the entire CA. One location might have 5 over, another 15, so it won't do much for the OP anyway.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    South-Central Cali
    Posts
    1,276

    Default Re: 66mph in a 45 Zone Vc 22349(A) Should It Be Vc 22350

    Quote Quoting Excelsius
    View Post
    You're right. I should say on average from what I have seen regarding my own cases. I don't know the statistics for the entire CA. One location might have 5 over, another 15, so it won't do much for the OP anyway.
    Or I would think MOST would be in compliance with the law, which says that the speed limit must be rounded to the nearest 5-mph of the 85th-percentile speed established by the survey. That can be reduced another 5 mph if there are special conditions, which must be justified in the survey.

    The speed limit signs should be considered hard limits (and not just guidelines) unless you have a possible defense under 22350.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,175

    Default Re: 66mph in a 45 Zone Vc 22349(A) Should It Be Vc 22350

    Quote Quoting quirkyquark
    View Post
    Or I would think MOST would be in compliance with the law, which says that the speed limit must be rounded to the nearest 5-mph of the 85th-percentile speed established by the survey. That can be reduced another 5 mph if there are special conditions, which must be justified in the survey.
    In other words, the only allowable "bump" is a downward (reduction) of 5mph from the speed nearest to the 85th percentile speed established by the survey. There are no 10's or 15's that can be justified!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    98

    Default Re: 66mph in a 45 Zone Vc 22349(A) Should It Be Vc 22350

    TG is right. The maximum reduction from the 85th percentile speed would be 7 mph. For example, if the 85th percentile speed was 37 mph, the nearest 5mph is 35 mph. Then, let's say that there are many accidents on this stretch of the road, a 5 mph reduction could be taken. This leaves us with 30 mph. A reduction of: 2+5 = 7. If the 85th percentile speed was 38 mph, then the speed limit would have to be set at 35 mph at the lowest (round up to 40 mph, subtract 5 to get to 35).

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: 66mph in a 45 Zone Vc 22349(A) Should It Be Vc 22350

    Thank you all for replying, I was just about to pay it and forget it. Glad i check my post.

    I will be filing the TBD some time before my 10-03-11 Due date. Im guessing it will best to keep it short at sweet.

    "I am charged with 22349(a) with a radar speed of 66mph. I am seeking dismissal due to radar having a +/- 1mph tolerance and radar does not read fraction speeds"

    1. Should i state the VC 22349(a)?

    2. Any advice on best time to file? (does it matter if i file now or a few days before the due date)

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