California LIDAR Help Needed

[mischik]

My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: California

Hi everyone,
I have a ticket from 10:05pm on the 19th of July 2011 in "Traffic" Conditions (although there weren't many cars on the road) with the VC noted as 22349(a) Exceeding 65mph. The officer wrote down LIDAR 91MPH @ 589'. He also wrote down the Unit number of TS000228.

I'm trying to determine a few things.
1. How I can pull calibration records based on the serial number
2. What the requirements are for calibration in California
3. How I can determine which model it is so I can pull the user manual based on the serial number if possible.

Other than the common perpendicular arguments, sweep error and cosine errors (reflection error won't work as it was nighttime) what are my other options for fighting this ticket? I do not believe I was driving 91.

I plan on fighting this with trial by declaration and am working on my documentation and would appreciate any advice. I am considering using the speed trap argument as well - any downsides in Cali?

Thanks again

[That Guy]

1. How I can pull calibration records based on the serial number

You'll have to make a discovery request.

2. What the requirements are for calibration in California

Once every three years... And yet that specific requirement only applies to prosecution of prima facie speed limit violations, and this is not one. Generally though, the courts seems to follow the 3 year rule as a basis, all while the CHP makes it a policy to calibrate more often than that (anywhere between 3 months to 6 months). So you're not likely to find a unit that does not meet the legal 3 year requirement. But, you're free to try.

3. How I can determine which model it is so I can pull the user manual based on the serial number if possible.

Discovery...

I am considering using the speed trap argument as well - any downsides in Cali?

Speed trap arguments do not work for citations that are issued in violation of VC 22349(a) when Lidar was used to measure the speed.

You seem to be pretty enthusiastic about fighting it, and far be it for me to suggest that you shouldn't. What I will say is that this will not be an easy one to win on merit.

Good luck!

[sniper]

Based off the serial # provided, it's a LTI UltraLyte 200 LR. I'm also assuming it's a CHP ticket.

[mischik]

You'll have to make a discovery request.


Once every three years... And yet that specific requirement only applies to prosecution of prima facie speed limit violations, and this is not one. Generally though, the courts seems to follow the 3 year rule as a basis, all while the CHP makes it a policy to calibrate more often than that (anywhere between 3 months to 6 months). So you're not likely to find a unit that does not meet the legal 3 year requirement. But, you're free to try.


Discovery...


Speed trap arguments do not work for citations that are issued in violation of VC 22349(a) when Lidar was used to measure the speed.

You seem to be pretty enthusiastic about fighting it, and far be it for me to suggest that you shouldn't. What I will say is that this will not be an easy one to win on merit.

Good luck!

Terrific thank you so much. Appreciate it. I am enthusiastic about this because I was not doing what I was accused of doing; was being careful and may have been doing 75 - 91 is bogus. I will do what I can even if it's to try to win on a technicality..

Based off the serial # provided, it's a LTI UltraLyte 200 LR. I'm also assuming it's a CHP ticket.

Thank you so much. Yes it's a CHP ticket.. so now I'm assuming I need to go to court to find out when it was last calibrated? I'm a bit at a loss as to how to argue this one. What I know is I checked my speed right before being pulled over and the Officer is incorrect. Just arguing that against LIDAR isn't going to work I am afraid.. I'm not sure what other avenue to take. :-(

[That Guy]

Terrific thank you so much. Appreciate it. I am enthusiastic about this because I was not doing what I was accused of doing; was being careful and may have been doing 75 - 91 is bogus. I will do what I can even if it's to try to win on a technicality..

The issue with that though is even if you were only doing 75, the maximum speed limit you were cited for is 65mph... You're still in violation

so now I'm assuming I need to go to court to find out when it was last calibrated?

While it is true that a copy of the calibration certificate maybe on file with the court, the court is NOT going to provide you with a copy; at least not at this point in time.

You'll have to serve a discovery request on the county D.A. as well as the CHP if you have any hope of receiving anything!

I'm a bit at a loss as to how to argue this one.

And while I am not simply attempting to discourage you -fight it all the way if you want-, I am being honest and have no ulterior motives when I tell you it will not be an easy fight.

What I know is I checked my speed right before being pulled over and the Officer is incorrect.

And where do you get the impression that the officer had clocked you "right before he pulled you over"? Considering the fact that he used Lidar, that would suggest that he could not have simply clocked you as he was driving behind you; instead, he would have had to been parked on the side of the highway, and it may have taken a bit for him to merge into traffic and catch up... Add in some time that he may have simply followed to possibly run your plates, and it could realistically be a few minutes between the time he clocked you and the time he lit you up!

Just arguing that against LIDAR isn't going to work I am afraid..

Not likely... But you're free to try and find out on your own!

Good luck!

[mischik]

[QUOTE=That Guy;541240]The issue with that though is even if you were only doing 75, the maximum speed limit you were cited for is 65mph... You're still in violation

--Yes if in fact it was 75.. earlier I had checked my own speed at 58 so given the insanely high 91, I'm 100% certain the reading was inaccurate.. therefore it may well have been 65.

While it is true that a copy of the calibration certificate maybe on file with the court, the court is NOT going to provide you with a copy; at least not at this point in time.

--Okay good to know.

You'll have to serve a discovery request on the county D.A. as well as the CHP if you have any hope of receiving anything!

--Okay. Thank you.

And while I am not simply attempting to discourage you -fight it all the way if you want-, I am being honest and have no ulterior motives when I tell you it will not be an easy fight.

--I really appreciate it honestly. I think candor is a terrific thing and I'm not under any delusion that this isn't a significant uphill battle..

And where do you get the impression that the officer had clocked you "right before he pulled you over"? Considering the fact that he used Lidar, that would suggest that he could not have simply clocked you as he was driving behind you;

--My understanding, maybe I am wrong here, is that to use LIDAR in California the Officer is "supposed" to have reason to use the LIDAR which they usually do through a visual or another reading.. maybe the documentation I read is incorrect?


Not likely... But you're free to try and find out on your own!

--:-) Thanks. I know it's unlikely but truly I feel this is not accurate and I need to fight it if nothing else for the sake of right and wrong..

[That Guy]

--My understanding, maybe I am wrong here, is that to use LIDAR in California the Officer is "supposed" to have reason to use the LIDAR which they usually do through a visual or another reading.. maybe the documentation I read is incorrect?

Not sure where you got that but no, the officer does not need a reason to use the Lidar... typically, you will find them parked on the side of the road/highway with the exclusive purpose of speed enforcement using a Lidar gun. He does need to confirm his visual estimate of the speed of a particular vehicle with the reading he can obtain using Lidar (or vice cersa) and he may even obtain a couple more readings assuming he has sufficient distance to do so prior to having to merge into traffic to give chase and stop the offender. But that is all that is needed.

This methodology sort of defeats most if not all arguments that entail excuses such as "it wasn't me", "it had to be the other car next to me", "I know I wasn't going that fast"... etc.

Good luck to you anyway... Your efforts are more likely to end up being an exercise in futility, but then again, who knows, you maybe one of the lucky ones where the officer either fails to file a declaration or fails to appear to a court hearing. Most people end up learning something in the process.

[Enharu]

This is just for my case maybe, but the radar unit that the CHP used for me was not calibrated by a lab for almost 5 years.
Officer submitted statement and I still won TBD.
That was for Taft, CA and I had the same violation as you did.

[mischik]

This is just for my case maybe, but the radar unit that the CHP used for me was not calibrated by a lab for almost 5 years.
Officer submitted statement and I still won TBD.
That was for Taft, CA and I had the same violation as you did.

--Wow. How did you find out when it was last calibrated? What argument did you use for the TBD? Thanks!

[Enharu]

I filed for discovery.
The CHP responded in about 1 month. It was sent by his captain or leading officer (can't remember the name), not by the Officer himself.
In the discovery sent to me, the radar's last calibration by a lab was in 2006.
I made my case on that fact then.