Illegal Search and Seizure

[Bango]

Earlier today I was the subject of what I believe to be an illegal search. I was in my car leaving from a private fishing pond and was position and just about to pull out onto a rural county road when a white truck passed by in front of me. While on the phone and sitting in the same position the white pickup truck had turned around. It turns out it was a unmarked police vehicle. He exited the vehicle and asked what I was doing and I told him I had been fishing.

In my front seat I had a 22 rifle and a glock 40. When checked the guns came back to me. The officer asked for my license and then for me to step out of car. He gave me the whole spill about is there anything illegal in the car and blah and blah and he had been a narcotics officer for a long time. When I said there was nothing illegal he said if that was the case he could go ahead and search. I said no and that he had no right to search my vehicle. When he reached for my door handle I stepped in front of him and told him again he didn't have the right search my vehicle. He pushed me back and said that since I did not have a concealed weapons permit that he could search. He searched and searched and since there was nothing there, there was nothing to find.

I asked him why I was being treated like a criminal and he said that my lips and cheeks were pale. I asked him what exactly that led him to believe and he said I could have been huffing paint or glue. He ran the serial numbers to guns they both come back to me. He searched the trunk and said I was probably going to be able to go if everything checked out on my license. Everything came back in good standing but my vehicle was again searched. Nothing found.

Is this a probable search?








My question involves police conduct in the State of: Arkansas

[jk]

5-73-120. Carrying a weapon.

(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he or she possesses a handgun, knife, or club on or about his or her person, in a vehicle occupied by him or her, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person.

(8) The person is in a motor vehicle and the person has a license to carry a concealed weapon pursuant to § 5-73-301 et seq.

(d) (1) Any person who carries a weapon into an establishment that sells alcoholic beverages is guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to a fine of not more than two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) or imprisonment for not more than one (1) year, or both.

(2) Otherwise, carrying a weapon is a Class A misdemeanor.

I did not have a concealed weapons permit

from what you described, he not only had a right to search, he had a right to arrest you and confiscate your guns.

I asked him why I was being treated like a criminal

maybe because you are. Carrying the guns as you described is illegal ergo, you are a criminal.

[Bango]

Your a sharp character ? Make a valid point so as I don't waste any more time reading your garbage. Not one of your statements applies to the situation. Thanks

[cdwjava]

Your a sharp character ? Make a valid point so as I don't waste any more time reading your garbage. Not one of your statements applies to the situation. Thanks

It seems that JK found relevant law (not sure where the alcohol establishment part came in, but the rest seems good). What makes you think that the law does NOT apply to you?

Apparently the law prohibits your ready access to the handgun in your vehicle unless you have a permit. You stated you did not have a permit. What part of that does not apply?

[Bango]

For one
5-73-120. Carrying a weapon.

(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he or she possesses a handgun, knife, or club on or about his or her person, in a vehicle occupied by him or her, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person.


I did not to employ said firearms as a weapon against a person. And would I have not been arrested if I was breaking the law?


It is only illegal to carry weapon on you concealed. This was in plain view.

[cdwjava]

For one
5-73-120. Carrying a weapon.

(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he or she possesses a handgun, knife, or club on or about his or her person, in a vehicle occupied by him or her, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person.


I did not to employ said firearms as a weapon against a person.


It is only illegal to carry weapon on you concealed. This was in plain view.

You miss the part about possessing the handgun "on or about" your person, or in a vehicle occupied by you otherwise available for use with a purpose to employ as a weapon against a person. It seems that on its face, that section has been violated. Now, if your state holds that intent to use it against another person must be objectively demonstrated, then I cannot imagine that this section could ever be prosecuted as unless you have actually brandished it at a person or shot at them, such specific intent cannot readily be made. I am not going to go looking up AR case law, but i suspect that you will find that as long as the weapon is available for use against a person, the law applies.

But, perhaps there is case law on the matter.

All the more reason to secure legal counsel so as to determine whether it is time to plea bargain, or whether the state cannot meet the elements of the offense.

[Bango]

There was no arrest made, nothing confiscated , just feel like the officer had no right to search vehicle. He said since firearms were in sight that he had probable cause. I even stepped in front of him and told him he was not going to search my car. That went over great

[cdwjava]

If he had probable cause to conduct a search of the vehicle based upon his observations, then he can generally conduct a search whether you agree or not. The fact that he chose not to act on any offense he identified does not indicate that he did anything wrong only that he exercised discretion. He likely saw the guns and saw that this gave him the means to take a look to see if there was anything more going on.

And if the officer has probable cause to search, then you can do a tap dance in front of him and it will not change anything ... except maybe get you tossed into jail.

[Bango]

I just don't see where firearms would justify probable cause to search. I took the push that he gave me when I stepped in front of him meant that he did not approve. He didn't just search once he was so pissed off that he had to give it a second look. By this time his reasoning to search had changed from the firearms to the fact that he said my lips and cheeks looked pale? What a joke? I asked him what possibly I could have been doing to cause such a change in my appearance. He said I could have been huffing glue or paint?


I will let you know how things go when I go talk to his boss tomorrow. The sheriff

[jk]

Bango;540244]I just don't see where firearms would justify probable cause to search.

because you did not have a permit to carry and the law I quoted:

5-73-120. Carrying a weapon.

(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he or she possesses a handgun, knife, or club on or about his or her person, in a vehicle occupied by him or her, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person.

Why the cop didn't bust you is something you would have to ask him but the guns as they were were illegally held and as such, gave the cop every right to search your vehicle.


Carl, the alcohol section was just because the pertinent penalty section (that followed) would appear to me missing something without that. The alcohol section was not applicable but the following section just started out with "otherwise" so it left it as to what is the otherwise.

I just don't see where firearms would justify probable cause to search

because the law said it was

. I took the push that he gave me when I stepped in front of him meant that he did not approve.

and as an example of him being a tolerant guy: at that point, you were guilty of obstructing an officer and could be arrested.

He didn't just search once he was so pissed off that he had to give it a second look.

If you were as obtuse then as you are now, it doesn't surprise me at all.

By this time his reasoning to search had changed from the firearms to the fact that he said my lips and cheeks looked pale?

it really doesn't matter. He was ultimately looking for drugs or the such but using the guns was a valid and legal justification

What a joke?

I doubt he thought it was a joke.

I asked him what possibly I could have been doing to cause such a change in my appearance. He said I could have been huffing glue or paint?

and? A cop is allowed to use clues to help determine what it going on.

=Bango;540239]For one
5-73-120. Carrying a weapon.

(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he or she possesses a handgun, knife, or club on or about his or her person, in a vehicle occupied by him or her, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person.


I did not to employ said firearms as a weapon against a person

it doesn't say anything about employing the weapon, at all, let alone against a person

. And would I have not been arrested if I was breaking the law?

apparently not. Why? I have no idea but it was the officers discretion.

It is only illegal to carry weapon on you concealed. This was in plain view.

Uh, sorry but that isn't what the law says.