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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6

    Default Not Stopping Before the Limit Line for a Stop Sign

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California
    22450A VC-I
    I received a ticket for not stopping before the limit line. I am 18. On the ticket all the description says is Stop Sign.

    I am willing to plead guilty, but I was fined $250 for this. I have to take traffic school as well to keep the point off so it's going to run around $315 if I just pay.

    My ticket says to appear in court on or before 7/#/2011 so can I show up to the courthouse whenever to speak to the judge about reducing my fine or do I show up on the date posted?

    Do I have to plead not guilty to speak to someone or can I plead neither, speak to the judge, and then declare it so that I don't admit guilt and rule out dismissal?

    What are the steps that I will be going through when I go to court?

    Should I bring up all of these or will some of them not help?:
    1. I was going downhill so it would make sense that I went a over a bit.
    2. I came to a complete stop, but my front bumper was past the limit line and my front tires were on the line.
    3. There were no pedestrians or other vehicles around.
    4. The ticket was on the day of my highschool graduation on my way to rehearsal. My diploma date as proof.
    5. I had a passenger that I was driving to graduation.
    6. I just enrolled in college and have no money left. Financial hardship. No income.
    7. This is my first offense.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    CT & IL
    Posts
    5,276

    Default Re: Not Stopping Before the Limit Line. Stop Sign

    Quote Quoting her0
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    Should I bring up all of these or will some of them not help?:
    1. I was going downhill so it would make sense that I went a over a bit.
    2. I came to a complete stop, but my front bumper was past the limit line and my front tires were on the line.
    3. There were no pedestrians or other vehicles around.
    4. The ticket was on the day of my highschool graduation on my way to rehearsal. My diploma date as proof.
    5. I had a passenger that I was driving to graduation.
    6. I just enrolled in college and have no money left. Financial hardship. No income.
    7. This is my first offense.
    How do you know the tires were on the line? You cannot see them, right?
    I don't see point out how or why you were guilty is going to help you. No money? Then no license if you cannot pay the fine, just a fact.

    Driving to graduation? Irrelevant.

    You can go to court & see if you can get a "deal".

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    14,763

    Default Re: Not Stopping Before the Limit Line. Stop Sign

    None of the excuses you mention have any real effect on guilt or innocence. And the fine is a very small part of the total obligation you would have to pay if you are found (or plead) guilty. So, there may not be much wiggle room for a court other than to allow you to pay over a short period of time.

    Here is the section:

    22450. (a) The driver of any vehicle approaching a stop sign at the
    entrance to, or within, an intersection shall stop at a limit line,
    if marked, otherwise before entering the crosswalk on the near side
    of the intersection.
    If there is no limit line or crosswalk, the driver shall stop at
    the entrance to the intersecting roadway.

    By your own admission, you were on or over the limit line. A judge MIGHT decide that was sufficient ... maybe ... it depends on what the officer has to say.

    if you take it to trial you may not have the option of traffic school if you lose. But, you can always try a trial by written declaration first and then see what happens.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"


    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,175

    Default Re: Not Stopping Before the Limit Line. Stop Sign

    Quote Quoting her0
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    My ticket says to appear in court on or before 7/#/2011 so can I show up to the courthouse whenever to speak to the judge about reducing my fine or do I show up on the date posted?
    Contact the court clerk for clarification. Different courts handle it differently.

    Quote Quoting her0
    View Post
    Do I have to plead not guilty to speak to someone or can I plead neither, speak to the judge, and then declare it so that I don't admit guilt and rule out dismissal?
    You appear in court, wait for your name to be called, you approach the bench... Some judges only want to hear "I'll take traffic school", "guilty" or "not guilty"... Others may allow for a "guilty with an explanation" in hopes of a fine reduction...

    Quote Quoting her0
    View Post
    1. I was going downhill so it would make sense that I went a over a bit.
    Not if your car's brakes are in working order, AND the stop sign is clearly visible and/or the limit line is clearly marked.

    Quote Quoting her0
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    2. I came to a complete stop, but my front bumper was past the limit line and my front tires were on the line.
    If any part of your vehicle went over the limit line prior to the complete cessation of movement, then you were in violation.

    Quote Quoting her0
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    3. There were no pedestrians or other vehicles around.
    The law requires you to stop, then check for pedestrians and vehicles... Not the other way around.

    Quote Quoting her0
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    4. The ticket was on the day of my highschool graduation on my way to rehearsal. My diploma date as proof.
    Congratulations... But I don't see that exception listed anywhere in the code section.

    Quote Quoting her0
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    5. I had a passenger that I was driving to graduation.
    Maybe he/she would like to contribute part of the fine, as a show of appreciation!

    Quote Quoting her0
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    6. I just enrolled in college and have no money left. Financial hardship. No income.
    You can request an extension to pay. Fine amounts are not based on your income, they apply equally to everyone!

    Quote Quoting her0
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    7. This is my first offense.
    We all had to start somewhere.

    Judges have heard these excuses time and again... That is not to say that your particular judge will not have any sympathy towards you... Just don't raise your hopes to high up the he/she will.

    Good luck!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Not Stopping Before the Limit Line. Stop Sign

    The law does not require checking for anything before proceeding after a stop. Common sense requires this but the section does not. I commonly stop behind a vehicle which has begun to move after it's stop and I don't pull forward and make ANOTHER stop before proceeding. This is legal in most instances because the law reads that I must stop BEFORE entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection. How FAR back you stop is not included in the section...just a stop.

    Did you make a stop further out of the intersection and then another stop a small distance further in order to have a better view of possible approaching traffic? If you did this maybe the officer thought you had made a poor stop but in fact you made one good stop that he did not see and then another stop which he misinterpreted. Did you stop a little past the limit line in order to assess approaching traffic? Sounds like you were being careful if not strictly legal. Maybe the letter of the law can be broken but was the spirit of the law broken? It sometimes matters in court. If this could be the case it might fly as a defense...it very well could depending on the physical layout of the intersection. Most of the time you will get a fair shake in court but you must go prepared with facts that can cast a little doubt on the issue of guilt...Thats all it takes..a little doubt. Considering the fines involved I would take a shot. Your driving record can matter in this and in the future. Do what you can to protect it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,175

    Default Re: Not Stopping Before the Limit Line. Stop Sign

    Quote Quoting pismopal
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    The law does not require checking for anything before proceeding after a stop.
    Really? So what is the purpose of a required stop BEFORE the limit line if not to check for pedestrians and cross traffic?


    Quote Quoting pismopal
    View Post
    I commonly stop behind a vehicle which has begun to move after it's stop and I don't pull forward and make ANOTHER stop before proceeding. This is legal in most instances because the law reads that I must stop BEFORE entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection. How FAR back you stop is not included in the section...just a stop.
    Well, expect to commonly get cites if/when an officer sees you do it that way... And then come back and let us know how it worked out for you in court!

    Re-read the code section CdwJava posted above... It specifically says: SHALL stop AT the limit line... Not one car length before!

    Quote Quoting pismopal
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    Your driving record can matter in this and in the future. Do what you can to protect it.
    And that should entail "driving within the limits of the law" rather than making an attempt to test out wild theories in court!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Not Stopping Before the Limit Line. Stop Sign

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    if you take it to trial you may not have the option of traffic school if you lose. But, you can always try a trial by written declaration first and then see what happens.

    So if I try a trial by written declaration I can still take traffic school and show up in court for fine reduction later or will the trial by written declaration take those away? Because it doesn't seem right to me that I have to pay $300+ for barely stopping over a limit line, but sometimes there's nothing we can do about these things.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,175

    Default Re: Not Stopping Before the Limit Line. Stop Sign

    Quote Quoting her0
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    Because it doesn't seem right to me that I have to pay $300+ for barely stopping over a limit line...
    Actually, it does seem right! What DOESN'T seem right is to admit to the violation and expect a freebie... just because!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    14,763

    Default Re: Not Stopping Before the Limit Line. Stop Sign

    Quote Quoting pismopal
    View Post
    The law does not require checking for anything before proceeding after a stop. Common sense requires this but the section does not.
    You are correct - 22450 does not require you to check before proceeding, but CVC 21802(a) does.

    I commonly stop behind a vehicle which has begun to move after it's stop and I don't pull forward and make ANOTHER stop before proceeding. This is legal in most instances because the law reads that I must stop BEFORE entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection. How FAR back you stop is not included in the section...just a stop.
    You might want to read it again ... notice the two letter word: "at"
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"


    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Not Stopping Before the Limit Line. Stop Sign

    I am not expecting a freebie. What I forgot to mention was that I wanted to plead guilty and receive a reduction and traffic school, but now that I found this invoice I've been looking for I might fight the case.

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