Failure to Stop at a Stop Sign, Traffic Violation Code VC 22450(A), Fresno California

[JasonDDI]

My question involves a traffic violation signed court summons from the state of: Fresno, CA
I just received a traffic violation code VC 22450(a), stop sign infraction, and signed to appear in court.

The officer asked me, "do you know why I pulled you over?" and I said No because I knew I wasn't speeding in the area that I was in, but he told me that I ran a stop sign. I was shocked by this and stated "I blew a stop sign back there?" because as far as I knew I stopped to the safest ability, being that there were no pedestrians, or cars going at the stop. He went on with "Well you didn't blow the stop, you made an big attempt to stop, but didn't stop completely." I'm a little confused at this, as this is my first traffic violation since my speeding ticket since I was 17, and I'm currently 22.
My current situation is that my girlfriend and I both use the car, to which I was told by her parents was insured for uninsured drivers. So I don't have insurance, and just found out that I can get insurance to cover myself before touching her parents insurance because the car and insurance is under their name. I want to know if I have a chance in court when I appeal, to get off on this, and if not, if I have the possibility of paying the bond and going to Traffic School and not affecting their insurance. Also I'm wondering what the fine is, I've been reading around that its about $216-$280, so if I could get a positive on this, that would be great. I really appreciate your time with this matter, and I hope to hear from you soon.

-Jason-

[flyingron]

You don't appear to have a defense. You're required to stop, not attempt to stop. There's no exception for the lack of pedestrians or cross traffic.

Traffic school is most likely your best option. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about the insurance.

[That Guy]

Here is the code section you were cited for:

22450. (a) The driver of any vehicle approaching a stop sign at the entrance to, or within, an intersection shall stop at a limit line, if marked, otherwise before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection.

If there is no limit line or crosswalk, the driver shall stop at the entrance to the intersecting roadway.

(b) The driver of a vehicle approaching a stop sign at a railroad grade crossing shall stop at a limit line, if marked, otherwise before crossing the first track or entrance to the railroad grade crossing.

(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a local authority may adopt rules and regulations by ordinance or resolution providing for the placement of a stop sign at any location on a highway under its jurisdiction where the stop sign would enhance traffic safety.

And here is the definition of the "limit line":

VC 377. A "limit line" is a solid white line not less than 12 nor more than 24 inches wide, extending across a roadway or any portion thereof to indicate the point at which traffic is required to stop in compliance with legal requirements.

There are 4 basic requirement that you MUST do at a stop sign: (1) you must cease forward movement, (2) you must do so BEFORE the front end of your vehicle crosses the plane of the limit line, (3) you check for and yield to any pedestrians and/or other traffic, and (4) you proceed accordingly. Based on what you posted, it sounds like your "stop" did not meet the requirement of completely "cease forward movement". based on what you posted, it sounds like you did 3 & 4 without doing 1 and 2... And there is no "stopped to the safest ability"... You either stop and you do so at the limit line, or it does not qualify as a "legal stop"!

The fine should be approximately $230 or so, and traffic school administrative fee to the court will run you approximately $49, so the total comes close to the $280 you mentioned (amounts may vary slightly depending on which county this was in). You will also have to pay the traffic school for the course but you should be able to find one for as little as $15 or so... (When you make that election in court, you will be given a list of approved traffic school providers).

And yes, if you opt for traffic school, pay the fine amount + the admin fee, complete the course and submit the completion certificate back to the court in a timely manner, then the citation is dismissed, and it will not appear on your driving record. So the entire incident is not likely to have any impact on your GF's parents' insurance premium.

[JasonDDI]

Alright thanks for the responses and help. Ive been reading around that some people don't get the choice to take traffic school and that it depends on the judge. I have a pretty clean record, as stated so do you think I will be able to take traffic school?

-Jason-

[That Guy]

Alright thanks for the responses and help. Ive been reading around that some people don't get the choice to take traffic school and that it depends on the judge. I have a pretty clean record, as stated so do you think I will be able to take traffic school?

-Jason-

If you have not attended traffic school for a citation you received within the 18 month period prior to you receiving this one, then you should automatically qualify for traffic school.

You can wait for a courtesy letter from the court which will outline what options you have. You can also call the phone number on your citation or go online to your court's website. Though keep in mind that it will take a minimum of 21 days for the citation to get filed in court.

The bits that you read relate to a traffic school request after the defendant had taken their case to trial and still lost. In those cases, and while a judge cannot arbitrarily deny you the traffic school option simply because you took the case to trial, there is not requirement that s/he approve your request nor is s/he required to state a reason for doing so.

[JasonDDI]

Again, thank you. What about getting the ticket price lowered? Would pleaing guilty help that?

-Jason-

[That Guy]

What about getting the ticket price lowered?

That would be up to the judge. Some of them do, others don't.

Would pleaing guilty help that?

Well, with as busy the California court system is, it would be one less case that the court would have to deal with if you were to plead guilty at the arraignment. But to say that the judge should be obligated to offer you a reduced fine in lieu of a guilty plea??? While that might be the case in some courts, I wouldn't necessarily make that connection in every courtroom.

[PaleGringo]

Greetings, all. First post on this forum, and thankful for guidance or advice that you can provide.

Facts of Citation:
On Saturday, May 28th I was driving home along the northbound I-5. It was windy on the way downhill through Grapevine, CA and I thought that it would be in my best interests to stop for gas, circulation, and possibly some caffeine to assist in the 150 minutes of my drive remaining until I got home.

I exited the I-5 on Laval Road East and proceeded towards a Chevron station that had been there for some time. Traditionally, I would use Laval Road West but this was located on the closer side of the highway and offered a better entrance to get back on after the stop. I slowed down to below the posted speed limit (55mph) and noted that the area was getting very dark, absence of street lights and so on.

The brightest thing that I could see at the time (appx 11:30pm, overcast) was the parking lot and illuminated sign showing the above average price of gas for regular unleaded. I looked down to my gas gauge and discussed with my wife the possibility of waiting until a station further down the road to get gas, and we pulled into the parking lot, and parked the car away from the fuel pumps and carport.

Immediately following, I see a California Highway Patrol car in my driver side mirror and rear view mirror with lights on, boxing me in to the parking space. The officer, E. Munoz begins the not-so-typical address:

"The reason I pulled you over was because you failed to make a complete stop at the stop sign back there."

This immediately struck me as odd for two reasons. First, I don't remember any stop sign there, and DID NOT see one. Second, living less than 1/2 a mile from a poorly enforced 4 way stop sign that I pass every day, I'm very, very cogniscent of rules regarding a stop - including how vehicles intending to make a left turn do so after traffic going straight has passed in the intersection, not before or in front of them.

Once the traffic stop had been completed, and my information returned to me, the officer asked if I had any questions. I asked about the above scenario and the officer wasn't completely clear on how I was describing it, stating that whatever vehicle arrived first to the intersection at the time has the right of way. Thought that was an interesting response too.

Still the situation was unsettling, and I was thoroughly awake at this point so I began to recap what just happened with my wife so we would be clear on as many details as possible. I figured a short walk to the stop sign was in order, so I took pictures and video of the area in question to support a case. I remember the opening words distinctly, because in previous stops it had always been posed as a question similar to "Do you know why I pulled you over?" where this one was a statement that seemed very well rehearsed.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=34.991112...06968&t=h&z=18
This is a link of the intersection in question. Note that as of the date of the photograph (10/20/2009) there was no stop sign, crosswalk, or limit line for Northbound traffic on Wheeler Ridge Rd. If you go to the previous photo (5/24/2009) you can see the gas station still in construction with no stops or crosswalks at this intersection.

Landscape Photo of Intersection
The stop sign is actually there, but not illuminated by any overhead street lamps.

Portrait, With Flash, Stop Sign
The stop sign shows up quite well if it is illuminated.

Officer Stopping Another Vehicle in Parking Lot

Video of Stop Sign With and Without Flash
This was the first video I decided to take. You can get a sense of how far away street lights and illumination is, and I show the stop sign with and without flash.

White Van Doesn't Stop, Next Vehicle Does
Moments later, a white van cruises through the intersection, not being stopped because the officer is already citing another driver, presumably for the same reason.

Video from Officer's Perspective
I took this video from where Officer Munoz was parked. Worth noting that this portion of the road (as seen in the Google Maps video) is not paved, so when we witnessed him making the traffic stop after ours , a large dust cloud was stirred up and blew across the road. We did also notice that the CHP cruiser was parked and did not have either headlights or parking lights on prior to making the stop, and that seemed to correspond with us having enough time to get through the intersection at '15' mph and turn into the parking lot before the officer pulled in behind us.

-----

I'd really like to contest this ticket, and would appreciate guidance in the following:

1) The date I have to meet is July 27, 2011.
a) If I want to plead not guilty, I cannot extend this date.
b) I have the option for traffic school at this point, and that needs to be completed by September 19, 2011 if I choose that road.

2) Is this enough data to enter a plead of Not Guilty and possibly have this citation dismissed?

3) It mentions having to do this in writing. I can do that, but does it need to be mailed or received by 7/27/11?

4) Is it possible to see if there are a statistically significant number of citations at this particular intersection during evening or night time hours, or some other way to determine that it is an unsafe intersection?

5) The satellite picture dated October 20, 2009 shows the gas station but no stop sign, indicating that it had been installed and new lines painted within the past 18 months or less. Does knowledge of how an intersection is changing over time help support my argument?

6) Which parts should I include in my argument or omit? For example, I purchased low rolling resistance tires for my car in late April, and spent around $500 in car repairs this month to get the braking system fixed. I can include anything else that people would feel relevant, including informaton from the citation itself.

Thanks in advance for your assistance with this.

[That Guy]

Sorry Gringo,

1) There is no set method that the officer has to inform you of the reason for the stop. In fact, the citation he gave you is the only required notification.

2) I'm not sure what the old Googlemaps images have to do with the fact that the sign is/was posted at the time of the alleged violation. That sign became in effect on the date it was installed. Furthermore, there is no requirement that a limit line or a crosswalk has to accompany the stop sign. (Read CVC22450 below).

3) There is no requirement that the sign be illuminated by any overhead street lamps. The sign itself has reflective paint that illuminates it upon approach of a vehicle that has its headlights on! Assuming you were not cited for driving with no headlights, added to the fact that you confirmed the reflective nature of the sign when you used your flash, would imply that there is no reason whatsoever why you should not have see that sign and stopped accordingly!

4) Other drivers committing the same violation is not relevant to your citation nor will that have any impact on your guilt or innocence. Neither is the number of citations issued or the percentage of those issued at night versus during the day. Feel free to contact the CalTrans regional office for that area to notify them the you (and possibly other drivers) had issued seeing the sign but that is simply because you're a do-gooder.. While it might in fact garner some sympathy from the judge who maybe inclined to reduce your fine, I highly doubt it will result in a dismissal. But you're free to try.

5) The only thing that the officer must see and later testify to in order to prove his case is that you failed to stop as required. So he need not be on top of the sign to see that. Furthermore, the dust his tires kicked up every time he gave chase, is irrelevant.

6) The fact that his lights were off is not in anyway going to change the requirement that you must stop at the stop sign. In other words, he has the option to leave his lights on -for safety reasons- but if he can do his job without them, then by all means... He's good to go!

7) The amount of money you spent on tires and on improving your breaks is not likely to benefit you in any way due to the fact that it is your responsibility to ensure tha your vehicle (brakes/tires/suspension....) etc, are in perfect working condition at all times.

8) Last but not least, welcome to the forums but if you have any follow up comments and or questions, PLEASE start your own new thread (you can copy and paste your original question from this thread into a new one, then ask any additional/new questions that you can come up with). Thanks!

[sniper]

I'm going to be very blunt on this one.

You case is weak, so weak that your case can't even watch a strongman re-run on TV. This is why.

1) Your headlamps probably do a much better job at illuminating the stop sign then your Android cell phone camera can. This means, you should have seen the stop sign. You probably also missed the "Stop Sign Ahead" warning sign as well.

2) Old photographs do no good, especially when a new feature, such as a stop sign controlled intersection were in place at the time of your violation.

3) You don't even remember there being a stop sign...so you can't say for sure that you actually came to a complete stop.

4) You take your video of a van not stopping and the following car stopping...

5) Who cares if Officer Munoz stops every other car that runs the stop sign.

6) Who cares if Officer Munoz did not have his lights on when he was watching the intersection. You didn't stop for a posted stop sign.

7) Cloud of dust for another vehicle. Again, how does this even relate to your running of the stop sign.

8) You imply you can't safely stop your vehicle because of tires/brakes. This means you should not drive your vehicle until this is corrected.

9) The intersection was probably deemed unsafe when there was not a stop sign there, that's why one is there now. (Just a good guess).

10) The way you state Officer Munoz telling you the reason why he stopped you is within the CHP's policy. It's the way he's taught to conduct business. "Do you know why I stopped you" is an open ended question which puts the violatior on edge. He saw you run a stop sign. He stopped you. He told you why he stopped you. He wrote you a ticket for what he saw you do. It probably seems well reheresed because it seems he sits there and writes that stop sign a lot. I do not see your argument in this...


Bottom line is that if you want to fight this ticket then do so. Spend hours preparing your case and bring in a lot of stuff. In the end, I predict you will be found guilty and in the end, it'll be a waste of time, a couple of gray hairs, and a whole lot of stress that can be avoided by going to traffic school.