Property Boundary Dispute With Established Fence Line

[Phil24623]

My question involves personal property located in the State of: MISSOURI

I am a member of a Church and recently a person bought some adjacent property. The owner claims that about 30' of property used by the Church is on their land. The property was recently surveyed and varies just slightly (3 or 4 feet) from the fence which has served as the boundary for many years. The fence was established about 20 years ago by mutual agreement with the neighboring landowner and installed by members of the church congregtion. A survey of the fence was performed at that time but a quitclaim deed was not recorded.

The property owner claims that the survey is wrong and has threatened to "take it to the state board". The property owner is very belligerent and had threatened to prosecute the individual mowing grass on our side of the fence. Additionally the neighbor has started removing the boundary fence which was purchased and installed by the church.

A few questions:
1) What additional steps should be taken to resolve the boundary dispute?
2) The Church has a Board of Trustees. Do these trustees have to be recorded or registered with the state?
3) What actions or rights does the church have to continue to mow and maintain the grounds while the dispute is ongoing?
4) What actions should be taken to prevent removal of the fence?
5) What other issues or problems should the church expect or consider?


Thanks so much for your service!

[jk]

per the survey, whose property is the fence actually on?

[Phil24623]

The survey actually crossed the fence. On the east side, the survey showed the neighbor's property to be about 3' on what we thought was our side, but on the west end, it was about 5' on what we thought was their property.

thanks

[jk]

well, for the fence is on his property, unless you can prove there was an agreement to the fence being accepted as the line, he has a right to remove the fence that is on his property. For anything actually on the church property, call the police and report him.

1) What additional steps should be taken to resolve the boundary dispute?

the survey should be used and accepted unless the church intends on claiming some property other than that shown to be theirs by the survey. If that is the case, they need to look for a lawyer to represent them in court. If the neighbor hired the survey, he has no argument is it not valid. If the church hired it, if the neighbor disputes the validity of the survey, he can hire his own. Until then and if another survey disputes the current survey, the courts are going to accept the current survey as valid.

2) The Church has a Board of Trustees. Do these trustees have to be recorded or registered with the state?

no idea but what does this have to do with the issue at hand?

3) What actions or rights does the church have to continue to mow and maintain the grounds while the dispute is ongoing?

it depends on what portion of the land you are speaking of and what, if any actions the church is taking to resolve the issue. If it is property the survey shows to be the church, they have all rights to do whatever they want. If it is property the survey shows to be the neighbors but the church wants to claim it, they need to take action to support their claim or accept it is not their property. As such, they would have no rights to do anything on that section. If it is property they are willing to fight in court to claim, I would suggest not doing anything that will result in a fight. Simply deal with it in the courts.

4) What actions should be taken to prevent removal of the fence?

If the survey shows it to be on church property, the police can be called. If it is on property the survey shows to be the neighbors, if the church intends on laying claim to the land and is willing to fight it out in court, they can seek an injunction to prevent any actions to the fence until it is heard in court.

[LandSurveyor]

The property owner claims that the survey is wrong and has threatened to "take it to the state board".

As a surveyor I think that this threat is hilarious. It is one of the symptoms of an angry belligerent neighbor who knows more about surveying than any surveyor. If I were the church I would offer to pay for whatever phone calls and postage were necessary to help him move things to "the state board". Without his own survey in complete disagreement with yours, he will likely be mortified by the result.

For the rest, just follow jk's advice.

[Phil24623]

Thanks for the responses! Below I offer some clarification and additional questions.



1) What additional steps should be taken to resolve the boundary dispute?
the survey should be used and accepted unless the church intends on claiming some property other than that shown to be theirs by the survey. If that is the case, they need to look for a lawyer to represent them in court. If the neighbor hired the survey, he has no argument is it not valid. If the church hired it, if the neighbor disputes the validity of the survey, he can hire his own. Until then and if another survey disputes the current survey, the courts are going to accept the current survey as valid.
The neighbor hired the survey and our church would gladly accept the result and move the fence, but the neighbor didn't like the survey results and belives the property line is on our property. I do not believe the survey results have been recorded and I think they have pulled the survey pins. Is that illegal?

2) The Church has a Board of Trustees. Do these trustees have to be recorded or registered with the state?
no idea but what does this have to do with the issue at hand?
I was trying to determine who has the legal authority to represent the church and who is liable if a suit is brought. In reviewing old deeds, all individuals listed on the deed in 1945 are all dead. I thought there might be laws that covered how organizations like churches continued to transfer ownership to new trustees.

3) What actions or rights does the church have to continue to mow and maintain the grounds while the dispute is ongoing?
it depends on what portion of the land you are speaking of and what, if any actions the church is taking to resolve the issue. If it is property the survey shows to be the church, they have all rights to do whatever they want. If it is property the survey shows to be the neighbors but the church wants to claim it, they need to take action to support their claim or accept it is not their property. As such, they would have no rights to do anything on that section. If it is property they are willing to fight in court to claim, I would suggest not doing anything that will result in a fight. Simply deal with it in the courts.
As stated earlier, we would accept the survey or the fence, but since we can't find the pins the fence is the only thing to go by.

NEW Question: Should we go ahead and hire an attorney or wait to see what happens with a review board?

[eapls2708]

The Missouri Board For Architects, Professional Engineers, Professional Land Surveyors and Landscape Architects (http://pr.mo.gov/apelsla.asp) only has jurisdiction over the license of the surveyor. It has no jurisdiction over the actual boundary location or any of the other issues you've presented. The threats, tearing down the fence, the old fence agreement, etc. are all civil issues. The Board will only investigate to determine whether or not the surveyor met the appropriate standard of care and adhered to the laws governing the practice of surveying. As long as he did adhere to the laws and the standard of care, they won't, or shouldn't attempt to decide whether or not they agree with the surveyor's opinion of the boundary location. That level of review is reserved for the courts.

The only potential Board issue is the neighbor's dissatisfaction with the boundary location, and that's probably as far as that goes. The rest are civil, and for those you need an attorney. As a church, you are tax exempt, which requires certain filing. That filing would include a list of the church board members. That may be the pastoral staff, the elders, or some professional management if you are a large church. If you have questions about the adequacy of your church's management/leadership structure for legal matters, now would be a good time to get it cleared up.

If there is some record of the placement of the fence or the agreement behind it, and a copy of that old survey, they would be very helpful to have. Find them and give them to the surveyor you are going to hire to locate and mark the property line. You are stewards of what you have. You cannot take care of what you've been given unless you know exactly what it is. If you don't know, find out. Take no more than is truly church property but take reasonable steps to protect what has been entrusted to you.

[jk]

I would suggest having your own survey performed before anything else. While you could probably force the neighbor to present his in court, it isn't worth the trouble when you can obtain your own. Additionally, if the surveys match, it is kind of a double slap to the neighbor. It makes it nearly impossible for him to argue against the survey he purchased.

What I would do (other than the survey) is protect what you believe to be yours, based on the survey of the neighbor, and willingly remove what is a trespass on the neighbors property. Once your survey is finished, you then have the support to demand your property be respected. Whether a call to the police would be enough or having to file suit be required will have to be determined as this plays out.

Obviously do not get into a situation where somebody is going to get into a physical fight and just as well, any discussion that is non-productive and/or heated.

[Phil24623]

Would you suggest getting a different survey firm to perform the survey for the church. interestingly, we have used the firm in the past that the neighbor has the disagreement with.

thanks

[jk]

if you have a good relationship with the survey company, you might ask them if they can provide you with a copy of the survey they performed for the neighbor. If nothing else, speak with them about the problem you are presented with. Maybe they have some information to bring to the situation that might explain the neighbors belief or actions.

Hiring the same firm can defeat the purpose of multiple surveys. Even if a different surveyor performed a second survey, it is quite possible he would use any notes from the previous surveyor within his company so that if there is an error, it might be repeated. Not saying any of them are lazy but the first surveyor wouldn't have stamped his name on the survey and called it a day if he thought he was wrong and the company. Why should another surveyor from the same company, who very possibly worked with the first surveyor directly question the work of his associate.

along with that, from what I have seen and read (especially from the surveyors that post here: eapls and landsurveyor), a surveyor really does want his work to be correct and would be interested in addressing a problem, if it was an actual problem with the survey.