Do Store Detectives Have to Read You Your Rights

[PandorasBox]

Real simple:

the store furnishes these things called SHOPPING CARTS for a reason.

Once you put those items in your pocket, you CONCEALED them.

Next time...hands full, walk to the front of the store and get a shopping cart.......

[Gaidol10]

I know I concealed them, I didn't realize i could get charged for it. I didn't know the fricken law. and the store agent still can't assume I was stealing until I pass the checkout...I WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STORE no where close to the checkout not even walking to it. and I didn't make one move to even make the agent think I was resisting the cameras can verify that so he used excessive force on me by putting cuffs on me...not to mention defamation of character. The search was B.S...and the fact that he stopped me and didn't try to let me get my friends to verify that I WASN"T STEALING seems to be pretty bad also. I didn't even get a chance to have them speak for me so naturally i was under the impression that I it wouldn't matter. I honestly thought that just putting them in my pockets meant i was stealing so i admitted to it (in some for or another). Do i have anyway of getting a copy of what the investigator wrote down. Because I really think this is complete B.S. that I am having all of this trouble because the investigator wouldn't give me a chance to say what i was doing, or ask me or my friends what we were doing. enough of you guys telling me what to do. I will talk to a REAL lawyer, someone who can tell me what was wrong in the situation that ACTUALLY knows the laws, and the complete extent to what investigators can and cannot do

AND I wasn't ASKING whether i was concealing or not. I was asking whether my RIGHTS were violated as i believe they were.
-Can he cuff me when i wasn't resisting in the SLIGHTEST BIT
-Can he search me without a witness or my consent
-Can he put me under arrest without a witness present
-Can he put me under arrest without verifying that the merchandise was on me

to that last point in the list, he was the only one working surveilance, from what i have read he is supposed to watch me from the time the merchandise was selected and concealed to the time of apprehension, I know he didn't watch me the full time because he had to leave the monitors to find me.

SO if YOU HAVE REASONABLE INPUT TO ADD THEN ADD IT. stop telling me i was concealing i already realize i am guilty of that whether i knew it or not

[free9man]

-Can he cuff me when i wasn't resisting in the SLIGHTEST BIT

Generally, retailers' policies on this don't allow for the use of handcuffs absent some resistance. There is sometimes leeway for if the LP believes the subject may resist or other extenuating factors. Being unable to read this person's mind, I can't say what his rationale was.

-Can he search me without a witness or my consent

Again, most retailers' policy is not to search and as BOR noted it is not allowed by law in some states.

-Can he put me under arrest without a witness present

Most retailers' policy is that as long as the LP and subject are the same gender, no witness is necessary.

-Can he put me under arrest without verifying that the merchandise was on me

If they witness you conceal it and know you still have it on you, yes they can detain you. Some companies require LP to verify the merchandise at the time of stop and others say wait until you're backstage.

to that last point in the list, he was the only one working surveilance, from what i have read he is supposed to watch me from the time the merchandise was selected and concealed to the time of apprehension, I know he didn't watch me the full time because he had to leave the monitors to find me.

Generally, yes they are supposed to maintain surveillance. I'm guessing though that 51 packets of seeds are very obvious in your pockets. Since he can see you still have the merchandise on you, he's good.

Stopping you on the floor is not the way I recall Target AP doing business. LP assumes people are going to steal all the time prior to passing all points of sale. Concealment is a BIG, FLASHING red sign of stealing. LP normally waits for the subject to pass the last point of sale to ensure they are committed to the theft. That doesn't change the fact that the subject may have already fulfilled the statutory requirements to be criminally charged. There are also exceptions to the passing all points of sale requirement. He's not going to ask your friends what happened because it is assumed they will say whatever is necessary to get you out of trouble. He's darn sure not going to let them come back to the office to discuss it as that puts him at serious risk. Since you admitted to stealing the seeds, it is not defamation...it's the truth.

That being said, even if he violated any company policies, it does not invalidate the stop or your subsequent charges nor does it violate your rights. It would give an attorney something to play with if they got the LP on the stand as far as impugning their testimony but that's about it.

[jk]

. and the store agent still can't assume I was stealing until I pass the checkout.

WRONG

Did you not read the statute I posted?

willfully conceals the goods or merchandise of any store, not theretofore purchased by such person, while still upon the premises of such store,

concealing them alone is the crime. You do not have to go beyond the checkouts. You do not have to do anything but conceal them which you were seen doing. That and you admitting intent to steal pretty much shoots any defense you think you might have. You are toast.

the investigator wouldn't give me a chance to say what i was doing,

you will have the chance to tell the judge. Maybe he will believe your story. I wouldn't hold my breath.

I honestly thought that just putting them in my pockets meant i was stealing so i admitted to it

It did. It still makes no sense that you would say you were stealing them. If I was simply putting them in my pockets because I had too much to hold, that is what I would have said. The last thing I would say is I was stealing them if that was not my intent.

AND I wasn't ASKING whether i was concealing or not. I was asking whether my RIGHTS were violated as i believe they were.
-Can he cuff me when i wasn't resisting in the SLIGHTEST BIT
-Can he search me without a witness or my consent
-Can he put me under arrest without a witness present
-Can he put me under arrest without verifying that the merchandise was on me

from everything I could find, or actually not find, the actions were all legal.

to that last point in the list, he was the only one working surveilance, from what i have read he is supposed to watch me from the time the merchandise was selected and concealed to the time of apprehension, I know he didn't watch me the full time because he had to leave the monitors to find me.

It's not a matter of having to watch you continuously to make the bust legal. It is a recommended procedure in LP so that a person that ditched the merchandise will not be apprehended with nothing on them and no proof they ditched the merchandise somewhere. That could be a problem for the store if that were to happen. In your case, since you were caught with the stuff in your pockets, it is irrelevant.

[PandorasBox]

And not to be mean...but common sense:

If I were going to the store to purchase 51 packets of seeds....
- Why would I have friends with me?
- Why would I have not gotten a shopping cart?

Also...pockets big enough for that amount of seeds.....those are big pockets.....and that is not a remark about weight....just about how the large pocket size could be seen as a PLANNED theft.

[DavidForthoffer]

willfully conceals the goods or merchandise of any store, not theretofore purchased by such person, while still upon the premises of such store,

concealing them alone is the crime.

Now, now. Let's at least be accurate. Concealing them alone is not the crime.

The crime is willfully concealing them.

Based on the facts of Gaidol10's original post, he was not necessarily guilty of the crime of Concealment, though he had the burden of proof to show that he was not willfully concealing them.

Of course, based on Gaidol10's confession in Post #6 of "i told them i was trying to steal them because i didn't have my wallet" he is going to have a tough time defending the charge.

If I were going to the store to purchase 51 packets of seeds....
- Why would I have friends with me?
- Why would I have not gotten a shopping cart?

You could have friends with you to advise you on which seeds to buy.
You might not have gotten a shopping cart because you were originally planning to buy only a handful of seeds.

I am somewhat empathetic with Gaidol10's situation because of something I experienced about 40 years ago in Palo Alto, California. I spent some time carefully picking out some small lead models at a hobby store. Then, wanting to browse some more, I looked for a clerk to hold my selections while I browsed some more. Not finding any, I put my selection in my pocket, and walked over to some hobby magazines that looked interesting. A store employee came over and asked me if I put some goods in my pocket. I said, "Sure" and pulled them out and showed her. Then the manager came over, took the models, and started yelling at me. I told him that if he had handbaskets or shopping carts available for customers, then customers would not have a need to put things in their pockets. He told me he was going to call the police. I told him to go ahead---I had not left the store and I was not shoplifting. He stormed off, red-faced. He didn't even let me buy the models. Later, I got a letter from the manager to not come back into the store. I responded with a letter to him and the shopping center management saying that the whole situation was caused by them not having shopping baskets or carts. I went back a year later, and saw they then had conveniently-placed shopping baskets. At least some good came of it!

[bam!]

Is this poster for real? HAHAAH You watch too much TV.

The second you conceal and move away from a display, remove the security device and walk away or simply take off the price tag, you can be stopped, prosecuted and convicted.

Please tell us the honest outcome of your case when you find out.