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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    CT & IL
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    5,276

    Default Re: LIDAR Defense.if There is One

    Quote Quoting lostintime
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    I'm not looking for cheerleaders of any sort. I made a point about LIDAR that is factually true. It is supposed to be aimed at the plate for maximum accuracy. Page 9.

    www.stalkerradar.com/pdf/lidarmanual.pdf

    I'm not big on tit-for-tat arguments, so I'll leave it at that.

    The last point I made, when contesting a ticket, absolutely everything is skewed in their favor. They even have free representation from the state. A civilian does not on traffic tickets. There is no distance on the citation (wonder why that is), no plates were present, LIDAR was used through the windshield (not supposed to be done according to manufacturer)...well, LIDAR doesn't ever "lie", it is the most high-tech speed capturing device in history and anyone who challenges that is completely wrong and just trying to get out of the ticket.....you get the point.
    From the manual:

    The license plate is almost a perfect LIDAR reflector and targeting it should produce the best results. Vehicles without license plates will result in the LIDAR having shorter effective range.


    SO, not using the plate would result in a shorter range; but the operator did get a reading so is your argument weak or strong?

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    409

    Default Re: LIDAR Defense.if There is One

    Off topic..but still related question.

    Is is true, in some states, if you contest the ticket, and lose, you can be forced to pay a much greater fine? What is the reason for this?

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    14,685

    Default Re: LIDAR Defense.if There is One

    Quote Quoting lostintime
    View Post
    Off topic..but still related question.

    Is is true, in some states, if you contest the ticket, and lose, you can be forced to pay a much greater fine? What is the reason for this?
    Perhaps if you lose you have to pay for court costs ... or, the courts are more inclined to impose the higher end of the fine's scale.

    Laws vary by state, and rules vary by court.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"


    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    409

    Default Re: LIDAR Defense.if There is One

    Appreciated replies. Next...is it worth it obtaining discovery - and how do I go about it? I don't want to give away any defenses.

    It doesn't say anywhere on my citation about responding that I will show up in court. It just has a date/time, but not a court room number. Are you typically supposed to call the court ahead of time?

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: What are the Defenses to a LIDAR Ticket

    To begin with, lidar or better known as Laser, is NOT accurate. A case in NJ showed that a specfic unit had a 18.6 mph off (against the defendant). Basicall the int. unit uses least square of regression method, for 60% of the pulses for a +/- 3 ft accuracy. Whereas, the balance is avoid, in otherword the prob. is high as far as accuracy. Next, air, glass reflex. of the said glass is also a factor (check snells equations) to verfy this action. Also weather also plays games with the laser beam (H20). Look at the article on this site entitle Traffic Tickets. Search the web for Laser calcuations from the same author.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,175

    Default Re: What are the Defenses to a LIDAR Ticket

    Quote Quoting perry1180
    View Post
    To begin with, lidar or better known as Laser, is NOT accurate. A case in NJ showed that a specfic unit had a 18.6 mph off (against the defendant). Basicall the int. unit uses least square of regression method, for 60% of the pulses for a +/- 3 ft accuracy. Whereas, the balance is avoid, in otherword the prob. is high as far as accuracy. Next, air, glass reflex. of the said glass is also a factor (check snells equations) to verfy this action. Also weather also plays games with the laser beam (H20). Look at the article on this site entitle Traffic Tickets. Search the web for Laser calcuations from the same author.
    Which NJ case is that? And what makes you think that a case in NJ would be binding in Iowa?

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    CT & IL
    Posts
    5,276

    Default Re: What are the Defenses to a LIDAR Ticket

    Quote Quoting perry1180
    View Post
    To begin with, lidar or better known as Laser, is NOT accurate. A case in NJ showed that a specfic unit had a 18.6 mph off (against the defendant). Basicall the int. unit uses least square of regression method, for 60% of the pulses for a +/- 3 ft accuracy. Whereas, the balance is avoid, in otherword the prob. is high as far as accuracy. Next, air, glass reflex. of the said glass is also a factor (check snells equations) to verfy this action. Also weather also plays games with the laser beam (H20). Look at the article on this site entitle Traffic Tickets. Search the web for Laser calcuations from the same author.
    I have read the patents & you are correct on the regression method used ... it is not a proper mathematical method for this purpose. A 19 MPH error is not surprising to me. OMG I forgot about the index of refraction ... know how this is defined? The definition is the speed of light through a vacuum divided by the speed of light through the medium ..... yet all lidars use just the vacuum speed in their calculations & ignore any error ... and the greater the index of refraction, the looonger it takes light to travel ... and the more error introduced.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    409

    Default Re: What are the Defenses to a LIDAR Ticket

    Update...

    I went to the local courthouse to get the Officer's copy of the ticket, that was submitted to the state. Once again, nothing regarding the distance. No extra notes as well. Interesting thing, as I got there, two security guards were present and they asked where I was going. I told them why I was there, one security guard was extremely upset I would even consider "discovery" for a speeding citation. Right before walking through the metal detector, I put my things in a small bin, and my copy of the ticket as well, he decides to open the ticket up and start reading it, then tells me in a harsh tone "You were either speeding, or you weren't! It's that simple and you obviously got a ticket for a reason!". I was polite, although I found it inappropriate considering this had nothing to do with him. I told him, I believe a mistake was made, and someone was speeding, but it wasn't me, then went on about how this is a right we have. He finally shut up, the female security guard next to him was trying to divert him to the next person who showed up. She was also telling me to goto the traffic information center to obtain my copy, basically in case he got mad again. This guy was borderline livid someone would even dare request discovery over a ticket. I hope that's not a preview of things to come.

    I received the copy, and was told I need to call State Patrol for any extra notes or information pertaining to my ticket.

    On the way out, the same security guard asks me normally "Did you find out what you were looking for?", I said "yes" and was on my way out.

    When I got home, I contacted State Patrol, the person who answered the phone was initially very helpful. I gave her my name and citation number. She put me on hold for about 3 or 4 minutes. I knew this wasn't good. When she finally got back on the phone, she told me she had spoken with the Sarge and he informed her it is not required on their end to disclose any information to me, and that to obtain the few notes the officer left, I'd have to make a request via the District Attorney's office. I'm assuming a Court Order...for this. Really?

    What's the best way to go about this? I plan to write a very polite letter and send it via certified mail. I have the phone number, but I just worry they will look for a way to avoid giving it to me and I'd rather make this formal request in writing. I think it's slightly suspicious they don't want me to have this. I did not say that to her, but I could tell there was a change in her inflection when got back from being on hold. Almost a slight concern. I understand it is not required, but I will use it in my favor citing I was never able to obtain the distance (or the officer intentionally left it out thinking I wouldn't know this) and therefore this ticket should be dismissed, especially as LIDAR does give the exact distance one was clocked at. I'm also thinking he may have not said anything about my lack of license plates.

    At this point, I'm guessing now that they know, and they could change anything to suit themselves. My court plea date is May 23rd, and I was told the officer will not be there that day. I was told I could change my plea date to sooner, but decided to stick with the 23rd. Seems a little overboard for a speeding ticket trial to have a separate plea date. Maybe they know he's on vacation or something. Again, I'm not sure what to believe. I can tell they operate on the premise every civilian must be as uninformed as the status quo.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    238

    Default Re: What are the Defenses to a LIDAR Ticket

    I know you are in Iowa but here's a link to how it's done in Washington State. Maybe it is a similar procedure or maybe not...maybe you can cherry pick. I would think that you do have the right to see the evidence the state has against you. You would need to obtain that by requesting it from the county prosecutor or DA. Court procedures vary but the clerk of the court should be able to tell you how to obtain the discovery materials you are requesting. They cannot give you legal advice but they can explain what you must do when you come to the court to defend yourself. Good Luck!

    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89115

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    CT & IL
    Posts
    5,276

    Default Re: What are the Defenses to a LIDAR Ticket

    All the OP has to know is the procedure for discovery in a speeding case. It is either via the practice rules of civil, criminal, special, or administrative procedures. Likely civil ...

    http://www.legis.state.ia.us/aspx/Co...teListing.aspx

    Gives a list of all the practice rules.

    The OP will have to look at the state statutes and see how they determined the procedure for the charge.

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