Traffic Stop After Patronizing a Massage Parlor

[tclayton]

My question involves police conduct in the State of: Illinois

Sorry for the long post. If this is the wrong forum place I apologize it all centers around what this detective told me so I am categorizing it with police conduct.

This is the first time that I have had a run in with the police like this other then
regular traffic issues through life.

I wanted to ask advice to if I should expect to be seeing the police again or if this
sounds like it will end with what occurred.

The other night I got a massage at a sketchy place and while leaving like a mile from the place was pulled over for a moving violation. After explaining why I was not compliant with the moving violation, the officer asked me what I was doing in the area and what I was doing back where I had just left. I just said nothing, was driving through, and he kept repeating himself. I finally said if I have done something wrong here, then please arrest me because I don't feel comfortable talking because I did nothing wrong and I see on TV how things can end up with innocent people.

So he goes back to his car, then a plain clothes detective appears at my
window and starts talking to me, saying I have nothing to worry about and that they are just looking to gather information and that I am not under arrest. I told him the same thing, that I had done nothing illegal, that I don't feel comfortable talking with them about this and that I wanted to be arrested and have a lawyer if this was going to go anywhere. He kept saying (and by that time the other cop came back) look Mr. X, calm down if you have nothing to hide then you can answer these questions.

I just kept saying I did nothing illegal and that I don't feel comfortable answering there questions, so they say would you feel more comfortable talking off the road with the lights off. I agreed.

I moved with them and then we kept going over the same things, they said how would I feel if my name was in the papers and I said I did nothing illegal so I would have no problems with that. They said how would I feel if my wife knew where I was, which I said I have seen a chiropractor 25 times in the last year and get massages there all the time and this was the same as that, so why would she care? I did admit to being over there, I even said I called over there on my way
out that evening.

I never said what occurred. (That I got a massage) They asked if I had a # to the place and I said no.

So finally after the 10th+ time saying look are you guys going to arrest me or not, the Detective said we can do this the hard way if you want. I just said I did nothing illegal so I am not sure I follow him. The uniformed cop quickly came up, handed me a warning on the violation. Then the detective stops mid course with all this interrogation and says you are free to go!

So I say I am? He then tells me like 3 times after saying I am free to go that he will be seeing me soon, then saying real soon and that this will be the hard way then. And that I am the one making it like this.

My question is how likely am I to be hearing from these guys again? This was another town close (within 2 miles) to where I live. I really was in the area,(I did not travel to get there more then 4 miles) it was like 2 miles from where I had dinner, did not expect the massage place to be that sketchy (I really do have a bad back)
and get massages from time to time. I even thought about leaving when I got in because I had that odd gut feeling, was not other places I have been in before. I was more worried about getting ripped off or something.


They asked me several times how I had heard of the place, and hinted at prostitution. By saying something like its the oldest profession and other comments. Which I would just reply, I have no idea what you are talking about and that I had no idea why we were even having this conversation.

Sorry for the long rambling post. I just want to know if I should be getting a lawyer or if they were probably just putting pressure on me and since I made it through that its likely I will never hear from them again.

They never asked me for any phone numbers , they have my address from the warning he gave me. I am worried they will come harass my wife when I am at work or something.

If I do need to get a lawyer, what kind would I look for?

Thanks!

[cyjeff]

Sounds like they had the massage parlor under surveillance.

If you are charged with a crime, you will need a criminal attorney.

If you got a massage with a "happy ending", you most certainly did something illegal. If not, you are probably fine. Having said that, there was a reason why you went into a place where you didn't feel comfortable and hadn't been in before and got a massage.

[tclayton]

Thanks for the response.

As I said in the post, I did nothing illegal. I got a massage.

As far as why I did not leave the place, I just figured at the time I was being too sensitive and since nothing other then my initial sketchy feelings occurred that differed from previous experiences I left figuring it was in my head. (Until I got pulled over and questioned in the context that I did do something wrong)

I am curious what others think about the detectives comments about doing this the "hard way" does that sound like fear tactics? I told them nothing illegal occurred, that aspect of this will never change. So what I am having a hard time understanding is why he would choose to end our encounter and have it occur at a later date, which would be the hard way? Would it not be harder for him at that point and not me?

I am assuming that was a last ditch fear tactic they use hoping someone will cave in and admit to doing something illegal even if they did not. It does not seem fair, I could see someone saying something that would implicate themselves in error even if there is 100% nothing illegal that occurred.

Given the context of what I described normally that is something they would charge at that time, right? Not a later date?

[cyjeff]

As has been stated several dozen times, we cannot predict the future.

They can most certainly charge you later. We cannot know if they will.

[DavidForthoffer]

tclayton, it sounds like you conducted yourself in a nearly excellent manner!

OK, so you did admit you "had a massage". If the police are truthful, and do not have any other evidence against you, the D.A. should realize they have no case, and not press any charges.

Even with that, it was inadmissable. They clearly extended the stop past the time necessary for the traffic stop. Such extensions are a violation of your Fourth Amendment rights. They also continued asking you questions after you said you wanted a lawyer. That means any answers you gave after that are inadmissable, despite perhaps not being a "custodial" environment.

Once in my college days, I went to a "sketchy" massage parlor, perhaps hoping for a "happy ending". The young woman asked me whether I wanted an "active massage or a passive massage". I had no idea what they were, and could she explain the difference. She mumbled something and proceeded to give me a massage that, in a physical therapy sense, was the worst massage I've ever gotten, and did not have a "happy ending".

I supposed I dodged a bullet, in the same way that as I child I smoked a home-made cigarette, choked on it, and never smoked again, or as college student inhaled a marijuana cigarette, felt absolutely nothing, and never smoked marijuana again.

Maybe you just learned a similar lesson.

What to do:

a) First watch the video Don't Talk to Police, to stiffen your resolve to not even say "I had a massage."

b) When they start asking questions other than about the traffic stop, say "I wish to remain silent. Please stop questioning me. Am I free to go?" The first two sentences tell the police to stop questioning you, just as if you had asked for a lawyer. The last sentence focuses on your main issue: when you can leave.

c) Record the incident, such as by calling a Porcupine411.com number, which will have your call recorded. You have a First Amendment right to record government agents in the performance of their public duty, especially of matters of public interest. (Smith v. City of Cumming)

[BOR]

Firstly, the repeated interrogation was an Unconsitutional Seizure. The United States Supreme Court has repeatedly stated a traffic stop (Terry Stop), must only last in duration the time it takes to complete it.

Thier methodology was to get you to admit seeing a prostitute. The stop was based on a traffic violation, not a reasonable suspicion you patronized a prostitute.

Once you spoke what you did, the Constitutional procedure was to take care of the traffic violation, not continue questioning you.

I'll tell you waht happened to me once, I used to work graveyard. One night I had off I was driving around just to get out and drove down this little alley behind a bar. I was stopped by the police.

They claimed it was a high crime area for prostitution. I said "so what". I got the bigshot routine and then I asked what was the Constitutional reason for the seizure. Well, of course no one was going to dare ask that kind of question to them.

Again, they repeated thier initial statement. I said something to the effect of, "That's fine your are cracking down, but unless I am seized for a legal reason, I wish to go".

That of course just feuled thier ego, so I just sat there about 5 minutes going back and forth about the law which they of course knew they were wrong but would not admit it.

Finally not knowing whether I was an actual lawyer or such and not to push it, they said I was free to go, gee wasn't that nice of them.

I did not make a complaint about it since they did not order me out of the car of frisk me when I talked law, that would have ticked me off.

They are pushing your buttons, that's all. If they had probable cause you solicited a prostitute at that time, a citation would have been issued, or if a warrantless misdemeanor arrest was permitted when a crime was committed out of presence, they would have done so.