Speeding Ticket in School Zone - the Flashing Yellow Lights Are Out of Sync

[sammamish]

My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: Washington

Hello, I was ticketed in King County last week - 36 mph in what I thought was 40 mph, but the officer said the yellow school zone flashing lights were on, making it 20mph. I told the officer that I did not see the flashing lights, and I was so certain of it, I went back to the school the following day with my daughters, and we discovered that the yellow flashing lights turn off sooner on one side of the school / cross street (the street I was on) than they do on the other side of the school (the street where I got my ticket). There’s about a one minute difference.

When I passed the school shortly before 4pm, there were no kids, no flag patrols, and no flashing yellow lights. I turned right onto the other cross street and it was impossible for me, or any other driver to know that the yellow lights were still flashing on this street, as the lights were behind us by about a block, and in front of us, but facing the opposite direction (the direction that the police officer was watching). As far as I knew, the speed limit was 40mph.

I sent an email to both the City of Sammamish & the WSDT to see if I could get some information on how the lights were timed, etc. When I didn’t hear back, I contacted the manufacturer of the solar panel school lights and was informed by the President of the company that the most common reason for timing inconsistencies occurs during installation of the actual lights by the technicians. Each light has its own internal clock, and if there was more than one technician who helped install the lights, they could have used their wristwatches, or they could’ve been on different cell phone carriers in which he has seen up to a two minute timing difference.

Do I have a case for getting my ticket dismissed? How much proof do I need to bring?
When I got pulled over, both my car & cell phone listed the time as 3:59pm, but my ticket lists the time as “on or about 15:56”. Does anyone know how accurate the times are on printed tickets? When the officer went back to write my ticket, I looked out of my rearview mirror and saw that the flashing yellow light on the opposite side of the street was off and according to the officer, the lights are timed to turn off at 4pm. Both my daughters witnessed this as well. I wonder how many other people are getting caught in this unavoidable trap at the very end of each school day?

[BrendanjKeegan]

Read through this thread and file for discovery.

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89115

Let's see what the officer says.

[Ganoush]

Hello,
It's funny, my circumstance seem so identical to Sammamish's. It might even be in the same area (228th Ave SE between SE 21st and SE 24th)
I was cited for driving over the speed limit in a school zone (46.61.440 driving 16-20 over limit) . The time on the ticket says 3:55 but I think my watch showed 3:58 or 4:00. I was driving about 36mph - 38mph, the speed limit is 40mph.
The officer stated that the speed limit is 20mph when the flashing lights are on.
I saw clearly that the lights were not flashing because I stopped at a traffic light near where the speed zone sign is located.
In addition, I did not see any students visible near or flagger in the school area when I passed. While I was waiting for the officer to process my licence and registration, I saw many cars going more than 20s both ways.
The officer could not have seen the speed zone sign on my side of the road because he was quiet far away (about 800 feet or more) and facing the back of the sign.
There is another speed sign on the other side of the road for cars going in the opposite direction.
But I'm not 100% certain it was flashing or not. I could not see it for the same reason the officer could not see the sign on my side of the road.
The fine given was pretty hefty. I decided to contest the citation.
Should I submit a request for discovery or should I just write the reason for my contest on the court document they will send to me ?
Any inputs or advice is greatly appreciated.
Regards,

[sammamish]

This is exactly where it happened! The lights are not in sync, and there's about a two minute window where some lights turn off sooner than others. The lights were not flashing when we passed the school on SE 24th... there were no kids around, and no flaggers at the crosswalks. When I turned right on 228th, I had no way of knowing that the flashing light on the opposite side of the street facing in the other direction (the one the police officer was watching) was still on. I contested the ticket and just received my hearing date yesterday. How do I go about requesting discovery? I want to see what the police officer has to say. I have an email from the president of the company who installed the lights, explaining the most common reason for why the lights are out of sync. The City of Sammamish / Public Works dept. has not responded to my request for information on how the lights were / are maintained.

[Ganoush]

Hi Sammamish,
I think someone posted on how to request a discovery and a sample of the document in the forum.
You can use a forum search function. If I find it I'll forward to you. I believe you submit the request for discovery after you receive the court document mailed to you.
I walked back yesterday to the area and took some pictures (view from where I was, view from where to officer was). I saw the policeman there too a few minutes earlier but then she/he drove off to ticket another unsuspecting driver.
I think the lights do not flash the same time each day. Yesterday the area around the school was much busier than Monday (when I got my ticket) at about the same time. Therefore, the school zone lights were still flashing till about 4.00.
Do you know if the lights are on a timer or if the school official set them ?
Thanks

[sammamish]

According to the WA state dept. of transportation, the school has software that allows them to program what time they turn on & off. The officer told me they are scheduled to turn off at 4pm (except for Wednesdays). Each individual light though, has a master clock that was set by the technician who installed the lights. I think the master clocks are slightly off because the one on SE 24th turns off before the one on 228th. I had my girls stand by one light, and I stood by the other, and we used identical verizon phones with the exact same time and tested it out. Thanks for the info on discovery... I'll see if I can find it.

[Ganoush]

Here is the information regarding WA Speeding Ticket posted by Blewis. In it you'll find the information on filing a discovery:
http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89115
Thanks for forwarding the information from WA State Dept. Of Transporation.
I emailed the city of Sammamish and WSDOT about the school speed zone light scheduling and synchronization.
The city Sammamish office assistant who received the email said she will forward my inquiry to the Public Works Engineer.
WASDOT responded by forwarding me the following information: resource for the answers to your questions is Part 7 of the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD). You can access the MUTCD from our Traffic Operations website at http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Operations/Traffic/mutcd.htm.
I have not read it fully yet.

[Ganoush]

I called the school, the person there told me that the city of Sammamish is the one who set the schedule for the lights to go off.
I'm still waiting from the public works engineer's response to my question regarding the timing/synchronization.
Did you have any luck writing the Discovery request ?
Thanks,

[sammamish]

I have the discovery form, and will be taking it down to the courthouse this week. I'm interested to see what the officer has to say. I told the officer that I did not see the yellow flashing light, and I'm hoping she wrote that down on her report. Thanks!

[Ganoush]

Do you happen to have the address of the Prosecutor's office ?
I think we have to send one there and another copy to the court.
Thanks