When Is Somebody Who Has Been Given a Key Trespassing

[Foxhound]

My question involves personal property located in the State of: California

So I was having a debate with my friend on the limits of trespassing in the state of CA.

Let's say Person A was given a key to an apartment that its friends are renting. Person A is not on the lease but helps pay rent. Under what circumstances would Person A be considered a trespasser? There are no signs in this apartment stating "No Trespassing." Thank you all for your time. If possible could you cite which law or code you use to backup the statement if not it's fine any guidance to look this up is a plus. I promise this isn't for school and it isn't me trying to get my homework done for me. Just an honest, curious debate that I want to win heh.

[jk]

if A has not established residency at the apartment, anytime they are not their by permission they would be trespassers. If they have established residency at the apartment, they could not be considered trespassers until evicted by a court.

having a key, in itself, does not give a person a right of entry and helping pay rent, in itself, also does not grant any rights of entry.

[toddie]

When I tried to throw out a disruptive roommate who was not on any lease in a home I owned, The police asked me "Has he lived here more than 2 weeks?" I said "yes" and they would not remove him without an unlawful detainer and told me he has established residence.

Years later in the same state but a different county, I am living with my father for two years and the landlord simply calls the police and tells them I am not on the lease and she wants me trespassed and they trespassed me!

This is a huge double standard and that is why I came here for answers, because I have been asking everywhere for months and still have no answers. Show me the law not some opinion!

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121982

[flyingron]

You should keep it all in the same thread. Being given a key implies permission. If the person who issued it has authority to invite the person into his dwelling, then it is not trespassing no matter what other signs or warnings are given.

Eviction statutes are distinct from trespass statute. The fact that the police wouldn't throw out your roommate is distinct that the question you are asking.

[BOR]

When I tried to throw out a disruptive roommate who was not on any lease in a home I owned, The police asked me "Has he lived here more than 2 weeks?" I said "yes" and they would not remove him without an unlawful detainer and told me he has established residence.

Years later in the same state but a different county, I am living with my father for two years and the landlord simply calls the police and tells them I am not on the lease and she wants me trespassed and they trespassed me!

This is a huge double standard and that is why I came here for answers, because I have been asking everywhere for months and still have no answers. Show me the law not some opinion!

The LAW you are asking about can not be cited with specificness. When dealing with Landlord-Tenant law/Contract law and asking the police to enforce provisions of it as far as trespassing, they are not lawyers, and not only that, they have to enforce the trespass law as they understand it. A court may see it different if a person is charged.

This is not a person's home where giving a key to another who does not live there is EXPRESS authority to enter/make themselves at home.

A rental property is different. If A is not on a lease, and he was given a key by B and lives there then, or at least a partial residency, unless the lease directly permits this by B, it is probably within a LL's right to have them removed. I am not talking about "visiting" now, as no lease forbids that.

[toddie]

I was just adding my experience to someone elses thread.

In both situations, keys were given with permission. The only difference was the ignorance of the police in one of the situations in which the law they are supposed to enforce and uphold was not followed properly.

The police would not throw out my roommate years ago, but the police would throw out my fathers roommate just recently. Clearly a double standard where protocol was not being followed. The landlord gave me permission to be there it was not just the leaseholder.

The LAW you are asking about can not be cited with specificness. When dealing with Landlord-Tenant law/Contract law and asking the police to enforce provisions of it as far as trespassing, they are not lawyers, and not only that, they have to enforce the trespass law as they understand it. A court may see it different if a person is charged.

Would you agree that ignorance of the law is no excuse and that everyone is accountable for their actions regardless of their intentions?

This was a civil matter. unless the landlord credibly lied and said that I was damaging property or interfering with other tenants in the common areas the police should have understood that I was not trespassing. I did not willingly leave, I only cooperated under duress to maintain the peace. There needs to be accountability.

[toddie]

they have to enforce the trespass law as they understand it

They don't HAVE to do anything. A famous yet extreme example I will reference is the Nuremberg trials.
A more recent example are the police who shot people leaving New Orleans (during hurricane Katrina) under orders but were imprisoned afterward.

They should understand the law they enforce otherwise they can be accountable for just "following orders".
The police who dealt with me the first time, just happened to know the law. The police did not know the law the second time but that does not change the law! I suffered as a result and if nobody is accountable it can and will happen again!


Surely there is a favorable remedy to this situation that will be in my interests. Perhaps I need to file in small claims court? I am just not sure what kind of damages I can be awarded, and what parties I am able to press charges against. The landlord, the sheriffs deputies, the sheriff, the county itself? What about the attorney general? I sent them a letter and they ignored me.

There is no difference in the situations other than the way the police handled it.
I rented rooms to friends with no lease. I was a landlord just the same. I just happened to live in the same building (house) that the tenants had units (rooms) in. Giving permission to someone to live on your property, is not tentative on whether you yourself also live there. It did not matter that this was a rental property where the landlord lived there or not. It does not change the law as the law does not mention anything about that. There was a case I was reading about where it was not even a residential dwelling, it was an office in a warehouse and they had to evict them because they had established residency!


I could continue this rant... believe me. but for now... (click)