School Zone Ticket from Photo Radar

[Joe 7272]

My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: Washington


I got a ticket from a photo radar device in a school zone of a middle school. It was an automatic system and no officer was present. The school zone was in effect until 4:30pm and I got a ticket at 4:24pm. School is dismissed at 3:15 and the school office closes at 4:00pm. There were no after school functions and the school was vacant and parking lot was empty.

An elementary school nearby just a few miles down the road has the same school hours of operation, but its school zone is in effect only until 4:00.(and it is not radar enforced)


Do I have a case based on the fact different schools in the same community have different school zone effect times (even though their hours of operation are the same) and it is confusing driving around town wondering which school zone goes until 4:30 and which and others 4:00 when the signs are small…and-or-also… because the school was empty, it was 25 minutes after the school had closed and it was so close to the 4:30 mark.

As I side note, I was on a motorcycle, which does not have a clock, so I was unware of the exact time, but I knew it was well passed 4pm and noticed the school was vacant. 6 minutes…give me a break.

[DavidForthoffer]

What is the particular violation given on the citation?

I know in California, despite signs near schools that say that the speed limit is 25 mph when the sign lights are flashing, the actual law (Vehicle Code 22353(a)(2)(B)) says that for the speed limit to be changed to 25 mph, children must be going to or leaving from school, during normal school hours or recess. So if children are not present (or behind a fence), then VC 22353(a)(2)(B) does not make the speed limit 25 mph, despite the flashing sign to the contrary.

Generally, signs telling you what to do have laws saying the actual meaning. The only way to fully and accurately convey a law is to repeat the whole law (and even then, more may be needed).

So I suggest looking up the actual law and see if it has more qualifications than just being a school zone.


Another defense concerns the photo radar aspect. Does the photo in the clearly identify you? You could go to court and exercise your Fifth Amendment right to not testify against yourself, and the prosecution might have a hard time proving that you were riding your motorcycle.

You might research photo radar defenses. To prove a person guilty with photo radar (aside from identifying him), the prosecution may have to establish that the photo unit was installed and calibrated correctly, information transmitted correctly, and interpreted correctly. All that would have to be established by original documents or certified copies. There's a whole world of radar defenses out there.

[Joe 7272]

I might have a chance.... The photo's they have are only from the rear, and are distant shots. They zoomed in a ton to get my plate #, but do not have a picture from a front view, showing me.... I guess I could just go to court and let them try and prove it was me, since they have the burdon of proof. I guess if they ask me is that me in the picture, I can take the 5th, and say I do not what to testify against myself and do not have to answer that question. You have to prove it was me beyond a resonable doubt on your own.

[blewis]

Another defense concerns the photo radar aspect. Does the photo in the clearly identify you? You could go to court and exercise your Fifth Amendment right to not testify against yourself, and the prosecution might have a hard time proving that you were riding your motorcycle.

Unfortunately, your comments, while they MAY be true in CA, are NOT applicable in WA. Furthermore, traffic camera tickets in WA are treated like parking tickets. They do NOT go on your record.

I might have a chance.... The photo's they have are only from the rear, and are distant shots. They zoomed in a ton to get my plate #, but do not have a picture from a front view, showing me.... I guess I could just go to court and let them try and prove it was me, since they have the burdon of proof. I guess if they ask me is that me in the picture, I can take the 5th, and say I do not what to testify against myself and do not have to answer that question. You have to prove it was me beyond a resonable doubt on your own.

In fact, our law PROHIBITS them from taking pictures of drivers or passengers. In spite of that, "THEY" don't have the burden of proof. Our law simply states that the registered owned is responsible. Furthermore, "Reasonable doubt" is NOT the standard of proof in WA for traffic tickets. It's called "preponderance of evidence" Basically, that means a hair over 50%. Nowhere near "reasonable doubt".

You might want to read through RCW 46.63.170, which governs traffic cameras. You might also want to read through this entire thread. It may give you an idea of how to proceed, assuming you don't just want to pay the ticket and get on with your life.

Oh, and as long as there are signs properly posted giving the hours of operation of the school zone, it's YOUR responsibility to comply. Whether you have a watch or not. And MANY middle schools have "after hours" activities, which are not as common in elementary schools. That could be one reason why the school zone hours don't coincide.

Barry

[Joe 7272]

Barry, thanks for the clarification. You seem to be a good resource of information. I am going to just pay the ticket. Yes, the infraction does not go on my record. And the fine is not bad, considering a school zone violation.....$144. I was doing 33 in a 20. Lesson learned on my part. In CA where I'm from, that could of easily been a $500 ticket, plus it would be on my record. It is kind of frivolous in my eyes 6 minutes before with the school empty, but when it comes down too it, I did break the rules.

[DavidForthoffer]

Thanks, Barry, for the info concerning the State of Washington.

And further bad news: It appears that the Washington statute for speed limits near schools (RCW 46.61.440) requires only signage. It does not require presence of schoolchildren.

[BrendanjKeegan]

It does not require presence of schoolchildren.

Depends on what sign is posted. See MUTCD Section 7B. (pg. 735)