Speeding Ticket, CHP Did Not Pace, or Use Radar/LIDAR, VC 22350

[aacordon]

My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: California

I received a speeding ticket in which my speed was not obtained by a radar/lidar or pacing. The officer claimed the vehicles behind me and the one he was actually pacing was doing 80, and claimed how he saw me weaving earlier which was an untrue statement unless changing lanes once is considered weaving.

Order of Events are as Follows:
*In Downtown LA PF is 55

1. Changed lanes from lane 3 to 2 to 1 safely with blinker at 65 mph
passing vehicles that had been slowed down to about 30 mph due to an interchange.

2. Maintained my speed for 4 miles, while vehicles i passed initially began catching up/passing me

3. From aprox 1/2 mile behind in lane 3, i observed chp accelerate up to a BMW 325 that was speeding and was going to pass me with in a mater of seconds and was pacing him.

4. the BMW slowed to to about my speed about 6 car lengths behind still lane 3

5. I was now in Clear view of the CHP, and he sped around the BMW, cutting off the vehicle behind me and and the vehicle about to pass in lane 2.

6. Lit me up and i followed his instructions.

7. His explanation: "I stopped you for speeding, doing 80 in a 55 mph zone, did you see me coming"
me:"Yes sir, i noticed you tailing a bmw along with a pack of vehicle about to pass me"
chp:" Well that pack was doing about 80, and since you were the vehicle in front i pulled you over"
chp:"You should feel lucky im only citing you for speeding, i could cite you for reckless driving for cutting off the vehicle behind you and weaving."

8. He gave me the ticket, i said thank you and left.

Sorry for the long winded explanation, but this is the second ticket within 18 months so i have to fight it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Mr. Knowitall]

You can receive a ticket based upon the officer's visual estimate of your speed, if that's your question.

[aacordon]

I understand I can receive a ticket for visual estimation, however the officer told me that because he saw the cars behind me were doing 80, that i was doing 80 because I was in front of the pack. Suggestions would be great from those with experience. This is my second ticket in under 18 months. (The first ticket was for going 10 mph over in inclement weather. I was going the P.F. on a cloudy day with 2 mile visibility.)

Even if many will defend the judgment of the officer, I am for certain was going 65-67 because I never turned off my cruise control until I was pulled over. Still speeding, but not 80 mph. If it makes any difference, of which holds no validity in court, I own a 2011 Subaru STi.

I really would like to to know what to do...

A) Make an informal request for the officers notes, then do a TBD stating rebuttal based on his notes or just state that i stand by my not guilty plea.
B) If I lose TBD, fight and make a stand in court, or take the action of option C if he shows up.
C) Just go to my arraignment ask for fine reduction to appropriate levels for a speed of 12 mph over P.F. and request 2nd offenders Traffic school.

Any help would be useful.

I could stupidly go all out and claim im an expert to show how the method used by the officer to discern my speed was inaccurate, beyond his accreditation, even though i know his words hold their weight in gold. If they claim scientific expertise is required and im just a kid, ill just respond that im a BSEE grad enrolled in MSEE, radar engineer for a major company, I evaluate speed estimation for a living and understand multi-direction vector analysis.

The last statement is true, but i know i will get reprimanded for it.

[That Guy]

From aprox 1/2 mile behind in lane 3, i observed chp accelerate up to a BMW 325 that was speeding and was going to pass me with in a mater of seconds and was pacing him

How do you know he was pacing him? Maybe he was trying to get to you for your alleged speed/illegal lane change/weaving?

His explanation: "I stopped you for speeding, doing 80 in a 55 mph zone, did you see me coming"
me:"Yes sir, i noticed you tailing a bmw along with a pack of vehicle about to pass me"

So you saw a CHiPper -somewhere- behind you, and yet you continued at 80 in 55?

chp:" Well that pack was doing about 80, and since you were the vehicle in front i pulled you over"
chp:"You should feel lucky im only citing you for speeding, i could cite you for reckless driving for cutting off the vehicle behind you and weaving."

So he had a choice to pull over:
One speeding driver (the BMW), or
Another speeding driver who had allegedly committed an illegal lane change and failure to maintain his/her lane.

Understand that a officer is not obligated to pull over every speeding vehicle. If/when he is faced with the decision to pull someone over, he/she will pull over the fastest vehicle, the vehicle "setting the pace"/"in the lead", or the vehicle that catches his attention because of other violations (illegal lane change/weaving... etc). Based in your rendition of the events, you happened to meet (at minimum) two out of those three criteria.

Even if many will defend the judgment of the officer, I am for certain was going 65-67 because I never turned off my cruise control until I was pulled over. Still speeding, but not 80 mph.

Your cruise control argument isn't likely to work. But you're free to try it.

If it makes any difference, of which holds no validity in court, I own a 2011 Subaru STi.

Interesting... You know I was tempted to ask you a leading question: how did you know that the BMW was a 325 (considering that he never passed you) and a "325 badge" is on the back of a BMW?

Now that you mentioned the make/model of your car, I'm thinking maybe I was onto something...

I really would like to to know what to do...

A) Make an informal request for the officers notes, then do a TBD stating rebuttal based on his notes or just state that i stand by my not guilty plea.
B) If I lose TBD, fight and make a stand in court, or take the action of option C if he shows up.
C) Just go to my arraignment ask for fine reduction to appropriate levels for a speed of 12 mph over P.F. and request 2nd offenders Traffic school.

Any help would be useful.

Well, you seem determined to fight it... Try all of the above and test your luck! (Just keep in mind that not every court offers the 2nd offender traffic school, and in those that do, not every judge is sympathetic enough, especially with 80 in 55). But you've got nothing to lose by asking!!!

I could stupidly go all out and claim im an expert to show how the method used by the officer to discern my speed was inaccurate, beyond his accreditation, even though i know his words hold their weight in gold. If they claim scientific expertise is required and im just a kid, ill just respond that im a BSEE grad enrolled in MSEE, radar engineer for a major company, I evaluate speed estimation for a living and understand multi-direction vector analysis.

How does that relate to the circumstances here when the officer (and in addition to the "visual estimate"), will likely testify to a "pace", and a couple of lane violations?

Even if the judge were to allow you the opportunity to turn this into a science presentation, I don't think that'll work out for you but maybe you'll get a chance to test that out in your trial... Let us know how it works out!

[aacordon]

I responded yes, to seeing him, not to going 80mph.

His accusations to weaving were that i weaved through the vehicles behind me, which was not the case. I entered that section of highway ahead of them, from a center divide which split the highway in two. I was physically seperated from the group of vehicle as i passed them by a by concrete and metal.
Freeway split->I pass-> Freeway merges back-> change 3 to2 stay in 2 for .2 miles -> Change 2 to 1 and maintain. Should have explained it better.

Threats are common and i have heard them many times from CHP officers. I have been pulled over 5 times in this vehicle, cited only once. Every time the officer tried to say i was speeding 15-20 over, then they will say they will be nice and let me off with a warning when i was actually driving 5-10 miles below the PF, w/ light traffic. The 4 times I was let go, my co-workers were my witnesses and we were dressed in professional attire for work. This was on a notorious section on the I-15 driving to and from SD Naval Base. <- This says nothing about CHP in general, just experiences in the past 4 months. I drive cruise control 90% of time because the times at which i normally drive are between 5-6 am then 2:30-3:3 pm with no traffic 160 miles a day.

I understand how he could believe i set the pace, and i know its his word against mine. Also I am not saying that he should have pulled over the bmw, as he can pull over anyone.

I just dont like being pulled over for a speed 15 mph over what i was actually doing just because he tells me the people behind u were doing it. He said it was because he believed i was the lead car of the pack he paced.

Its like saying "I saw you rob a bank because you were walking by as it was robbed"

I just noticed your updates, as for knowing it was a 325, it could have been a 328 but 325's are much more common in the e46 chasis, an e46 3 series is not difficult to distinguish just by looking at the front end.

Cruise control is not valid for a dismissal but allows foundation for a reduction.

The scientific statement was a pun at all the ridiculous tactics people can pull in court.

[That Guy]

I responded yes, to seeing him, not to going 80mph.

His accusations to weaving were that i weaved through the vehicles behind me, which was not the case. I entered that section of highway ahead of them, from a center divide which split the highway in two. I was physically seperated from the group of vehicle as i passed them by a by concrete and metal.
Freeway split->I pass-> Freeway merges back-> change 3 to2 stay in 2 for .2 miles -> Change 2 to 1 and maintain. Should have explained it better.

Same result... You still have a citation in hand...

While your -alleged- "weaving" and "lane change" may not necessarily have any direct impact on your guilt/innocence in a "speeding" case, it did in fact result in attracting the officer's attention to you and you were the one who got pulled over.

Threats are common and i have heard them many times from CHP officers. I have been pulled over 5 times in this vehicle, cited only once. Every time the officer tried to say i was speeding 15-20 over, then they will say they will be nice and let me off with a warning when i was actually driving 5-10 miles below the PF, w/ light traffic. The 4 times I was let go, my co-workers were my witnesses and we were dressed in professional attire for work. This was on a notorious section on the I-15 driving to and from SD Naval Base. <- This says nothing about CHP in general, just experiences in the past 4 months. I drive cruise control 90% of time because the times at which i normally drive are between 5-6 am then 2:30-3:3 pm with no traffic 160 miles a day.

I'm not sure what you mean by "threats"... Either way, my point is, you didn't buy a Subaru Sti for its comfort or styling... You bought it for "performance"... (am I close?). Throw in a couple of questionable lane movements, speed that is in excess of the posted limit, and being the lead car for a few miles (all while you KNEW that the officer was right behind you), and you've managed to raise quite a few flags asking to get pulled over... You've lucked out so far by only getting 1 citation out of the 5 times you've been pulled over (or is it 2 out of 6)... The odds are against the probability of you continuing your lucky streak.

Good luck!