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  1. #1
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    Nov 2010
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    Default What Information is Required on a Robic Stopwatch Speeding Ticket

    My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: Pennsylvania.

    Ok here goes, I was pulled over the other night and the officer "claims" I was doing 49 in a 25, which is quite impossible seeing as how the white line starts literally 80-90 feet after the light I took a left turn at (from a dead stop it was red) getting my little 4 cyl car (1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS) to that speed over that period of distance would have required me to literally have the pedal to the floor and even then its not likely. I was however doing around 31-32 mph (it was floating) most of the road's in my town are 35 mph and the area where I was clocked with the Robic Stopwatch and pulled over had NO speed limit signs ANYWHERE in sight, I had to drive 1/2 a mile down the road to find one I seriously thought it was 35 as I'd never been in that area of town.

    Now that is one factor I was wondering about, seeing as how there is NO speed limit sign ANYWHERE around the area where he was trapping can I fight that? And my 2nd question is in PA what information is required on the ticket? All he put on it was he checked "exceeding maximum speed limit" of 49 in a 25. Also it doesn't give me the distance, and time measurements ANYWHERE on the ticket, is that required? Can I get the ticket dismissed for him not providing that information? Any info would be greatly appreciated. If it can't get dismissed hopefully I can get a PA-3111A and get it reduced to no points. Please help!!! lol oh and also I measured the distance between white lines myself and it was 100 feet, how accurate is Robic at 100 feet? On a side note this is a NEW Police Department, they just formed less than 3 months ago so they are infamous in this area for "trying to make a name for themselves and make their presence known"

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    10

    Default Re: What Information is Required on a Robic Stopwatch Speeding Ticket

    would also like to add that I went out and measured the lines myself earlier today, and its 100 feet... 100 feet at 44 mph = 1.5496 seconds, the Robic Stopwatch at 10 seconds timed has a 5% chance for error. 1 second timed is 50% so 1.5496 seconds is roughly 44% chance for error, and if there is human error based on human reaction time (star athlete's reaction time is .326 of a second) the margin of error is 48% which would be .7438, increasing the time clocked to 2.2934 which calculates out to 29.73 mph which means I was NOT speeding, 5 mph or less in PA is legal, gg johnny law I win.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Default Re: What Information is Required on a Robic Stopwatch Speeding Ticket

    Quote Quoting Ravenlocke
    View Post
    would also like to add that I went out and measured the lines myself earlier today, and its 100 feet... 100 feet at 44 mph = 1.5496 seconds, the Robic Stopwatch at 10 seconds timed has a 5% chance for error. 1 second timed is 50% so 1.5496 seconds is roughly 44% chance for error, and if there is human error based on human reaction time (star athlete's reaction time is .326 of a second) the margin of error is 48% which would be .7438, increasing the time clocked to 2.2934 which calculates out to 29.73 mph which means I was NOT speeding, 5 mph or less in PA is legal, gg johnny law I win.
    In your original post, you stated that you were cited for 49 in 25 and yet your calculation is based on 44mph... Furthermore, and pursuant to the PA Transportation Code section 3386(c)(4), the limit on issuing citations in zones with limits under 55mph is 10mph over not 5mph over which states:

    ... no person may be convicted upon evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph (3) in an area where the legal speed limit is less than 55 miles per hour if the speed recorded is less than ten miles per hour in excess of the legal speed limit. This paragraph shall not apply to evidence obtained through the use of devices authorized by paragraph (2) or (3) within a school zone or an active work zone.

    As for your original question, the only reference I was able to find is found under the same link as above:
    § 3366. Charging speed violations.
    In every charge of violation of a speed provision in this subchapter, except for a violation of section 3361 (relating to driving vehicle at safe speed), the citation or complaint shall specify the speed at which the defendant is alleged to have driven and the applicable speed limit.

    So you'll have to do some more research on that!

    Good luck!
    I am right 97% of the time... Who cares about the other 4%!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    10

    Default Re: What Information is Required on a Robic Stopwatch Speeding Ticket

    yah sorry I had a mispost on that first one, the speed was 44 in a 25. And I got advice from a lawyer friend of mine who deals with tickets a lot and he says based on the lack of clocking information on my ticket I can win my case, he says they have 30 days within the offense to ammend the ticket and send me my copy or its an immediate dismissal.

    http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/23...ter4/s403.html 234 Pa. Code Rule 403.*Contents of Citation.

    http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/j...5.053.000.html Summary offenses involving vehicles - 42 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5553 - Pennsylvania Attorney Resources - Pennsylvania Laws which states the 30 days to ammend.

    He also states that if the officer did not personally go out and measure the white line's and says "someone told him it was 100 feet" then that is heresay and is an immediate dismissal. He also said

    "Your next line of attack should be the lack of posted signs, if you can show there is no speed limit signs after you make the turn (must be posted after every intersection) then they are in violation of the law that signs must be placed every 1/2 mile or where the limit changes. Yes there are statutory limits like residential are 25 and urban districts are 35 which and a town is 35, but in PA if a road is not marked it is assumed to be 55. Have the officer prove the speed limit in that area was in fact 25 and not something else. Bring pictures and a diagram of the area showing where signs are or are not."

    He then said another strong factor is

    "The next thing to attack is the paper work required. The officer is required to provide a number of documents to show the stopwatch is allow to be used, it was properly calibrated within 60 days of the ticket and it was calibrate at an approve testing facility in PA. Also attach the distance, who measure it, how does the officer know what the distance was, if he did not measure it who did does he have any documentation to back it up, if someone told him that is hearsay and not admissible. If he measure which what and was it calibrated. Attacking this distance is better than attacking the time."

    So I did get some pretty solid advice, and I will let you know of the outcome, but thanks for your tips =)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Default Re: What Information is Required on a Robic Stopwatch Speeding Ticket

    Maestro64 is not a lawyer although he is quite knowledgeable when it comes to PA speed laws... Glad you got the info you're looking for.

    BTW, I don't see any specific requirement with regards to "clocking information" in that rule he/you cited. I did search for an interpretation of subparagraph 403(A)(6) in an attempt to clarify what the legislature meant by the underlined portion in a citation of the specific section and subsection of the statute or ordinance allegedly violated, together with a summary of the facts sufficient to advise the defendant of the nature of the offense charged; the closest I came to was Commonwealth v. Kaufman, 2004 PA Super 152 - Pa: Superior Court 2004 but that mainly deals with the burden of proof being on the commonwealth to establish that the device used was properly calibrated (it makes no mention of a requirement to state the "clocking info" on the citation itself). Of course you're free to come up with your own interpretation of that section/rule/subparagraph and hope that the judge buys into your argument.

    Good luck, and yes, update us on how things turn out.
    I am right 97% of the time... Who cares about the other 4%!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: What Information is Required on a Robic Stopwatch Speeding Ticket

    yah, I know Maestro64 isn't a lawyer, but Maestro did confirm the information that my lawyer friend told me pretty much to the letter and he stated in PA they are required to put your clocking information on the ticket so you can base a defense against it in court if necessary. He also sent me to a website for this information about there being no speed limit sign. It was located on a PA Motor Vehicle Law webpage (I forget the link now) I'll post it below. Keep in mind the cop started clocking me about 50 feet AFTER I turned left at a major intersection. Even about 150 feet beyond the 2nd line he stopped clocking me where I turned right into a shopping complex there isn't a speed limit sign in sight even from there.

    Section 2B.18 Location of Speed Limit Signs
    Standard:
    Speed Limit (R2-1) signs, indicating speed limits for which posting is required by law, shall be located
    at the points of change from one speed limit to another.
    At the end of the section to which a speed limit applies, a Speed Limit sign showing the next speed
    limit shall be installed. Additional Speed Limit signs shall be installed beyond major intersections and at
    other locations where it is necessary to remind road users of the speed limit that is applicable.

    Speed Limit signs indicating the statutory speed limits shall be installed at entrances to the State and
    at jurisdictional boundaries of metropolitan areas.

    Also the area I was in had NO residential houses in sight and actually would be considered a Urban area because business's line the road all the way down the street (not one residential house) and if you look on this webpage I post below in SUBCHAPTER F SPEED RESTRICTIONS in § 3362 it states (1) 35 miles per hour in any urban district. and the web definition of a urban district is "An area where industries, businesses or residences occupy the roadside more or less continuously for a distance of at least one-quarter mile." And the area I was in is like 90% business's. It also states

    Posting of speed limit.--
    (1) No maximum speed limit established under subsection (a)(1), (1.2) or (3) shall be effective unless posted on fixed or variable official traffic-control devices erected in accordance with regulations adopted by the department which regulations shall require posting at the beginning and end of each speed zone and at intervals not greater than one-half mile.

    The fact that there was no speed limit sign after this major intersection violates the "Additional Speed Limit signs shall be installed beyond major intersections and at other locations where it is necessary to remind road users of the speed limit that is applicable." Thus makes (1) 35 miles per hour in any urban district wrong because the limit was not posted upon turning onto another road from the intersection.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    10

    Default Re: What Information is Required on a Robic Stopwatch Speeding Ticket

    I went to court today and the officer never showed so the case was dismissed. Thank you everyone for your solid info I had a very good feeling I could have won if he did show up based on the info people gave me. I came fully prepared, luckily it didn't come to that. Again thank you all for all of your help.

    Oh the judge also tried to trick me lol. He said to me "44 in a 25 eh? what was your hurry?" I said "I wasn't going that fast" he then goes "well how fast were you going then?" I said "The speed limit" lol he smirked when I said that. Then he said "Well since you say you were going the speed limit, and there is no officer here to say that you were in fact not going the speed limit, have a nice day".

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