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  1. #1

    Thumbs down Does the SSA Have the Right to See My Rent Receipts, Bank Statements, etc.

    California
    They are threatening to take my benefits if I don't furnish information to them. Sounds fishy as hell to me. But they have a clause in the letter that says in 30 days we MAY terminate your benefits - unless you tell us why. I plan to tell them it's unconstitutional and I need more time to speak with a local attorney to find out what my rights are before revealing private financial data to a government agency. I am going to reschedule their 'appointment' and talk to a local Social Security Attorney to find out if this is constitutional. For the record I am NOT employed on any payroll or 1099, I am NOT doing anything 'gainful', and I am trying to get a job harder than I ever have before. Recently(as in the last two weeks) I took a cash loan from the bank to restructure my most important resources(computer) and get a deposit to move to a new place so that I can get in school and on track with my life. I worked late 2009 for a short time (30 days or less), made $400 over the table, then got FIRED and now because it was an advanced tech support position ($10/hr) they think I'm all gainful all of a sudden. I swear to everything I AM NOT!!! I am poor as hell wearing dirty rags, no washer dryer, I live in a SLUM HOUSE and am grateful as hell for this bank loan to be moving out, getting a new computer for school, and being able to afford a deposit in a time of dire need.

    Here is photographs of the letters I received, private data blotted out:
    NOTE: THIS IS _NOT_ LABELED A "NOTICE OF PLANNED ACTION" sounds HIGHLY unconstitutional to me. Just like a cop saying "I'm going to search you now" and you don't know your rights so you say "Ok officer - search away!".





    I checked the SSA Handbook (Chapter 'SSI') and I don't see anything under the requirements stating I am required to give private financial data to the government whenever they demand it. I see under the United States Constitution we have something called "Due Process of Law" and the 4th and 5th amendment which protect us from unlawful seizures and self incrimination. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    This loan bill will be $80 a month. Could this be why maybe they suspect gainful activity? This is NOT a CDR, this is an unconstitutional attempt to extort information out of me that I feel they don't have rights to. A fishing expedition, nothing more. I have an expectation of financial privacy right? if they had PROOF I did something gainful (which I haven't) they would need a warrant right?

    Please give me the LETTER of the law, not the spirit. Thanks. I feel I may end up at the local Federal District Court suing these people if they TOUCH my benefits in a time of hardship. I was recently hospitalized and I am trapped in a slum house, getting bit by FLEAS and having silverfish eat my clothes. I mean SERIOUSLY what the HELL is the SSA thinking here? They have NEVER asked for this degree of information before, even when determining eligibility.

  2. #2

    Default Re: SSA Demanding Rent Receipts, Bank Statements, Etc - Unconstitutional

    I searched and searched and searched, I studied the SSA Agent Handbook, and "Your Rights and Responsibilities" on SSA.GOV. Nothing says they are entitled to this information. I also reviewed 20CFR and this was the closest thing I could find:

    404.452 - Reports to Social Security Administration of earnings; wages; net earnings from self - employment.

    (a) Reporting requirements and conditions under which a report of earnings, that is, wages and/or net earnings from self-employment, is required. (1) If you have not reached full retirement age (see 404.409(a)) and you are entitled to a monthly benefit, other than only a disability insurance benefit, you are required to report to us the total amount of your earnings (as defined in 404.429) for each taxable year.

    Read more: http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/404-452-earn...#ixzz1601ZTxEg

    That's all they are entitled to, correct? It's settled.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
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    73,807

    Default Re: SSA Demanding Rent Receipts, Bank Statements, Etc - Unconstitutional

    Information on how the SSA handles N20 suspensions can be found here.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Does the SSA Have the Right to See My Rent Receipts, Bank Statements, etc.

    So does this mean I Have to furnish the documents to them or not?

    I don't have a problem doing it if its LEGAL.

    If it's just another thing like a cop walking up to you and saying "Hey, can I tear your car apart, you don't have anything to hide do you?" I'm going to reject it.

    https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0413015001

    "Failure to Comply" would that be it? To what extent/scope of data are they allowed though ?

    Code:
    D. Procedure for providing an initial written request
    
    1. When to provide an initial written request
    
    Provide an initial written request each time you request new information, evidence or an action that has not been requested before. Give 30 calendar days after the date of the request to comply.
    EXAMPLE 1: You send an initial written request dated April 1 asking the recipient to call in for a redetermination. You complete the redetermination by telephone on April 24 and need evidence of wages. You send an initial written request to the recipient dated April 24 giving her through May 24 to provide the evidence.
    EXAMPLE 2: You send an initial written request dated April 1 asking the payee to come in for a redetermination and bring evidence of wages. On April 24, the payee comes in and provides the evidence. He reports that the recipient also has income from self-employment. You hand the payee an initial written request dated April 24 which gives the payee through May 24 to provide evidence of the self-employment income.
    2. How to provide an initial written request
    
    
    ...
    Umm so what I understand is there are a series of LEGAL SSA FORMS that are labeled, that they are require to send:

    Code:
    Provide an initial written request following these steps:
    STEP
    ACTION
    1
    Complete only one of these forms (in English or Spanish). No other forms are approved for this use.
    SSA-L3074-U2 (Supplemental Security Income Notice of Appointment), SI 02305.019
    SSA-L3075-U2 (Supplemental Security Income Notice of Appointment (1619(b)), SI 02305.019
    SSA-L8202-F4-INST (Important Facts about Your Supplemental Security Income), SI 02305.020
    SSA-L8003-U2 (Supplemental Security Income Request for Information), SI 02306.020
    SSA-L8004-U2 (Supplemental Security Income Request for Information-- 1619(b)), SI 02306.020
    2
    Address the request to the recipient or, if there is a payee, address it to the payee only.
    3
    Date the request the same day you mail it (or hand it to the person).
    4
    Fill in the due date (month/day/year) which gives the person 30 calendar days after the date of the request to comply.
    NOTE: The SSA-L8202-F4-INST contains preprinted language about the 30-day period.
    5
    Retain a copy of the written request in the paper file or the NDRed (Non disability Repository For Evidentiary Documents).
    NOTE: It is not necessary to fax a copy of the request to the NDRed if the StaRZ & StriPEs – The Next Generation (SSTNG) or the Document Processing System (DPS) produces the request. The Online Retrieval System (ORS) stores the request.
    That means this is some bullshit letter trying to get me to reveal information to the government that I'm not required to give, in more detail than im required to give it (if at all). As you can CLEARLY see this form has NO label on it, thus is not to protocol. Unconstitutional.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Behind a Desk
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    73,807

    Default Re: Does the SSA Have the Right to See My Rent Receipts, Bank Statements, etc.

    No, it means that if you want to continue to receive means-tested benefits you accept that the government may periodically verify that you remain qualified for that benefit. It means that there is a process the SSA follows in requesting documentation verifying your qualification and what it will do if you refuse prior to cutting off your benefits.

    You have every right to say "No way, I'm not documenting my financial means to you" throughout this process, knowing that will ultimately cause you to lose your benefits. The SSA won't make you do anything.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Does the SSA Have the Right to See My Rent Receipts, Bank Statements, etc.

    I want to make sure they are requesting the legal scope of information they are allowed to collect and use for payment determinations. Goverment is notorious for doing unconstitutional things to make it easy to get information they would normally not have a right to
    But are they within the scope of the information they are allowed to collect?
    I already agreed and rescheduled the appointment, and will cooperate. I just stand up for my rights whenever possible. When I first signed up for SSI they asked for bank balance , not statements. Isn't that protected?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,360

    Default Re: Does the SSA Have the Right to See My Rent Receipts, Bank Statements, etc.

    What's the big deal?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Il.(near StL,Mo.)
    Posts
    5,252

    Default Re: Does the SSA Have the Right to See My Rent Receipts, Bank Statements, etc.

    Agree with Patty. If they need the info to verify that you still qualify for benefits, why
    not just furnish it?
    Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    695

    Default Re: Does the SSA Have the Right to See My Rent Receipts, Bank Statements, etc.

    It is the JOB of the SSI claims representative to make decisions about whether or not you meet the non-medical requirements of SSI at the time you file and periodically for the rest of your life. There are employees who are paid to do that all day long. Congress knows. Congress made the laws. Congress created the budget that pays the employees to do this. You don't have to accept SSI benefits if you don't want the intrusion.

    If you can find your copy of your original SSI application in your paperwork, there will be a clause in which you stated you agreed to this. You also agreed to the Social Security Administration being able to check your bank account balances for as long as you are on SSI. SSI also wants to review your bank statements to determine if there is any income that you have failed to report. Bank account statements can also reveal undisclosed resources in addition to undisclosed income that gets deposited to the account.

    I have attached a link that explains the instructions the staff uses
    https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.n...ttocategory=05


    Read the link about redeterminations
    https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0502305000

    Redeterminations are part of the law that allows the SSI benefits to be paid at all. If the redeterminations are unconstitutional, then the program itself may be unconstitutional. Your local office can stop your SSI for failure to cooperate, can stop SSI if you have too much in resources, too much income, if you are outside the US, inmate of a public institution, incarcerated, if you fail to file for other benefits you may be eligible to receive and also if you are no longer disabled.

    SSI is public assistance. Your personal private life is the business of the SSI claims rep. It is their job to ask you questions. They are paid to do this. There are people who don't tell the truth about these things so these redeterminations are necessary to be sure that payments are correct.

    The previous commissioner of Social Security (Joann Barnhart) did not allow the staff to conduct either redeterminations or CDR's because Congress did not supply the budget for staffing that she requested. That may be why this didn't happen to you before. But it has been part and parcel of SSI benefits since 1974.

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