No Radar Used but Claimed - Discovery or Subpoena for Notes, Log, Recordings

[Antonie]

My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: California

I have received a ticket for alleged violation of 22349 b VC (going over 55 mph upon a two-lane, undivided highway).

However, two friends of mine with a radar detector in their car, who were driving in my immediate vicinity, said no radar ever went off in the course of my being stopped for the alleged violation. The officer was not measuring my speed by following either, as he was standing by the road first and then went after me when I was passing another car, which went way below the posted speed limit. Thus, the officer must have made up the number when he informed me he "clocked me" at 71 mph. This was allegedly as the moment of my passing (I went below the speed limit before and at the limit after the passing). "Curious" that, as opposed to the speed of 70 mph or lower, the alleged 71 mph or higher qualifies me for a much higher fine amount. Additionally, my friends did exactly the same thing right after me, meaning they passed the same slow car. When the officer switched on his lights behind us, my friends pulled over (and they remained there waiting for me), but the policeman indicated he wanted me instead. We suspect the officer chose me due to my Illinois license plate, as he assumed I would not be able to come to the trial. When I asked him about the court date on my ticket, the officer indeed said that was just the date by which I needed to send in my money.

So I would like to file for a discovery or subpoena, asking for any records the police has concerning the radar being allegedly used during the incident. I understand that to begin with, I still need the maintenance log (to make sure his radar was properly calibrated), but then also any log or notes, or radar readings, the cop was supposed to make during the incident. And perhaps the video recording I have heard they have of all stops. But I do not know what records exactly they in fact make of such traffic stops. Could you advise me what exact terminology I should use to request these--I mean how would be officially called the documentation the officer was supposed to create in his log/notes/records of my alleged speeding? (And I hope that by requesting the maintenance/calibration log, I will not in fact create an impression I believe he did use one.)

If I go with the discovery option, I am thinking that effectively indicating to the police (assuming they will show my request to the pertinent officer) how seriously we are taking this (my friends would write a witness statement for me and/or join me at the trial), and that I will be appearing at the court instead of sending money from Illinois to begin with, should in fact convince the officer not to attend the trial.

However, if it is better not to let the officer know what we want to argue, I should use the subpoena.

Do you have any experience in this regard? Any recommendations?

Thank you very much for any and all your thoughts,
Antonie

[adam_]

Interesting situation. How about posting the citation? (Black out any identifying info) Any indication he used radar?

Of course not getting an alert does not mean radar wasn't being used. He could clock you with Lidar- whereby they stand by the side of the road, get a speed using laser, chase you down.

[Antonie]

Dear Adam,
Thank you very much for your response.
I posted the citation (deleting identifying info as you had suggested) at: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/505564/SpeedingTicket.jpg (although I left my weight there as I found it funny that although I informed the officer--when he asked--my weight was 170 pounds, he insisted that was too much, and ultimately gave me "as much as 140 pounds." I wish it was that easy to lose 30 pounds! :-) But if the officer's ability to estimate speed of vehicles is as good as his ability to estimate people's weight... :-)...everything suddenly makes sense :-).
Anyway, to stop "trying to be funny," as you can see in the ticket, the officer checked he used radar (do you think so too?), and even gave its identification number. Concerning the lidar, that should just be able to target a specific car more precisely, right? The radar detector in question is supposed to detect lidars too, but someone has just told me it was not even worth mentioning that the detector never went off. Do you think so too?
Thank you again.

[adam_]

First, you must really understand how traffic court works in California (and most states):

If the officer SAYS it, the court BELIEVES it as an absolute truth. Think about that. It should guide your approach.

If he says "I clocked the car with radar for a mile at 71MPH, then when he passed I jumped in my patrol car and caught him then paced him for another mile with my bumper touching his at 71mph", the judge will beleive it.

You will try and point out this is impossible, but remember- anything you SAY is not true, anything the cop says is truth.

You may have witnesses who say their detectors didn't go off, and there were other cars, that the cop was stopped, that you weren't speeding after the cop got on the road... and other cars were going faster. Judge will not believe them.


depressing, huh?

You can do a TBWD (or TBD) to see what the officer will say. After you lose (and you will if the officer submits a case) you can request a copy of the officers statement. Then subpoena all the records you'll need. Maybe they have dash video?

You could also do a subpoena right away, immediately, prior to the TBD....Will it intimidate them? Make them know you are serious? Doubt it. Requesting the info up front puts them on notice that he needs to have his ducks in a row- he will make sure the story comports to what records he has..... But if you hold off on the records request and he fudges a bit on the TBD thinking you are not a real fighter, but then gets subpoena for all other stuff for the trial, it might lead him to bail on the case.

just thinking out loud here.

[Antonie]

Well, having never received any kind of ticket, I was indeed quite naive about how things work. So yes, what you are saying is indeed very depressing.

But what is "TBWD (or TBD)"? Oh, is it in fact the hearing? I shoudl say I have already arranged for appearing in court in person (on December 21st was the latest date they offered me, so that date it is).

And, I have also already submitted my Informal Discovery request (so if it was indeed a bad idea, it is late to consider that now :-(. In fact, a copy of it can be viewed at: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/505564/DiscoveryPosting.doc should you wish to look. I requested "everything in the world" that anyone mentioned I should want :-). And I was hoping to find through this what the officer in fact plans to argue, such as whether he used the radar or just estimated the speed visually (although if they do not provide much, I will still know nothing).

Can I still do a subpoena as well, especially if they do not respond to my discovery request, or send some things but not others that I may like to use?

Overall, when things normally work they way you described, has anyone ever won a "speeding" case (when the officer did show up)? Not that you should know about "everything in the world" that transpired anywhere, but is nothing that say the following book recommends (http://www.nolo.com/products/fight-y...ornia-FYT.html) any good?

[Antonie]

Yesterday, I received a letter from the court, of which the most important portion is attached (see section 4 and the checked "other"):
I would like to use this opportunity to thank you very much for all your comments and advice.
I also wish that things would improve also for all the other short ladies in little red cars, who have foreign accents, and who are heading to their out-of-state places, thus they cannot come back to fight.

[adam_]

Congrats. Thanks for letting us know.

A

[sniper]

Just because someones radar detector did not set off a warning does not mean radar was not used. Some devices are garbage. One guy argued his radar detector did not go off so I couldn't have used radar. I grabbed my handheld radar, walked in front of his car and pointed it directly at his radar detector. I held the trigger down for 2-3 seconds, long enough to get a reading of a car behind his then I asked him if it went off. He said no. I then told him whatever he paid for his detector was too much, which he said was $179...