Condo Parking Being Changed from Reserved to Open

[Condo]

My question involves a condominium located in the State of: Florida
Condo has 4 units built in 1999. We purchased a few years ago and our parking is 2 spaces with our number painted on the pavement and sited in our sales contract as our assigned parking. No problem until a new guy came in and he has one spot. He wants more I guess and now the association is declaring that it is "open parking" because nobody ever wrote down the assignments as a recorded document with the home owners assn. (Seems to me that that oversight is the failure of the Assn) Being told what the assignments were, having them written on the pavement, being in my contract which should have been reviewed by the assn. at the time of purchase seem pretty solid to me. The condo docs also state these areas as "limited common areas" So you can't just say now it is common because we did not write down the assignments. Please give me an opinion. Thanks
The builder intended everyone to each get 2 spots but in reality only 7 cars will fit, not 8 and the last guy in got the one instead of 2. Not my problem, right.

[jk]

hell, if it's open parking, I would be buying 5 more cars and using all the spaces.


Unless the parking spaces are actually deeded or contracted to you, the use is subject to change as the condo rules change them. You are going to have to scour those rules and see what it says about the parking and then what it takes to change the rules. The condo rules will rule. If you want to change the rules, they you would have to follow the bylaws and attempt to change them.

[SChinFChin]

My question involves a condominium located in the State of: Florida
Condo has 4 units built in 1999. We purchased a few years ago and our parking is 2 spaces with our number painted on the pavement and sited in our sales contract as our assigned parking. No problem until a new guy came in and he has one spot. He wants more I guess and now the association is declaring that it is "open parking" because nobody ever wrote down the assignments as a recorded document with the home owners assn. (Seems to me that that oversight is the failure of the Assn) Being told what the assignments were, having them written on the pavement, being in my contract which should have been reviewed by the assn. at the time of purchase seem pretty solid to me. The condo docs also state these areas as "limited common areas" So you can't just say now it is common because we did not write down the assignments. Please give me an opinion. Thanks
The builder intended everyone to each get 2 spots but in reality only 7 cars will fit, not 8 and the last guy in got the one instead of 2. Not my problem, right.

There's two ways you can approach this.

You can approach the other owners, have the bylaws changed. Or, you can hire an attorney to sue the HOA, and make a nuisance of yourself.

Personally, I find assigned spaces more workable. Often families have more than two cars, so if someone in your complex owns three or four cars, parks all of them in the "common parking", then there is no room left for everyone else. This is not even counting visitors who'll come, and squat in the "common space", and are you going to monitor the license numbers of everyone living in your section, to make sure no visitors are squatting??

At my rental condo, every owner is assigned one space, there are a number of visitor spaces, apparently not enough, so the HOA had the lines redrawn, narrower apparently, squeezed five more spaces out of it, and then the five added to the visitors.

With common space, I can see nothing but fights going on in the future. If I own a condo, the last thing I want to see is coming home from work, and find every last space in the "common lot" filled, with visitors, or the 3rd car of neighbors, and park several blocks away, assuming I can even find a space.

[Condo]

The condo association's defense is that they have "no record" of the parking assignments. Please answer this simple question. LEGALLY do I own the spot or not. I purchased from a former condo president. The association at the time must have reviewed the sales contract to let us in the association. I was told which spots were mine. The number is painted in the cement and clearly stated as mine in the sales contract. Everyone has been parking in their numbered spots for 10 YEARS. They say to sue the guy that sold me the condo because the spots were not his to sell. How is it that I was TOLD and SHOWN by the Condo President at the time of purchase that the spots were mine but now since it is not "written down" they are not. Apparently the builder let ownesr choose their spots as they bought in but the condo assn never wrote them down so they claim they were never assigned. Opinion please. I feel that something I paid for is being taken away from me.

[SChinFChin]

The condo association's defense is that they have "no record" of the parking assignments. Please answer this simple question. LEGALLY do I own the spot or not. I purchased from a former condo president. The association at the time must have reviewed the sales contract to let us in the association. I was told which spots were mine. The number is painted in the cement and clearly stated as mine in the sales contract. Everyone has been parking in their numbered spots for 10 YEARS. They say to sue the guy that sold me the condo because the spots were not his to sell. How is it that I was TOLD and SHOWN by the Condo President at the time of purchase that the spots were mine but now since it is not "written down" they are not. Apparently the builder let ownesr choose their spots as they bought in but the condo assn never wrote them down so they claim they were never assigned. Opinion please. I feel that something I paid for is being taken away from me.

Parking spaces can come as part of the deed, or not. It looks like this is NOT, so you'll have to look to the HOA. I have a condo where some storage closets are "deeded", and some storage lockers located in other common areas are assigned numbers and can be re-assigned by the HOA.

The short answer is, YES, technically it was not illegal for them to do this.

Just as an aside, but relevant, I bought a condo as a rental, the sales agent for the condo said it was OK, her husband the condo president said it was OK. So, the HOA allowing me to rent depends on the records kept by the HOA.

But my lawyer had a problem with it because he said HOA's have a bad record of keeping records, depending on the property management companies to do this, and if they change PM companies, records are lost. So my attorney demanded a "Board Resolution" saying we had a right to rent.

Both the condo president and his wife was not pleased with it, and on the day of the closing the resolution was not done, I went from NY to MA to do the closing the day after Thanksgiving, on the day they had a Thanksgiving day in that town. My attorney said "don't close until you have it in writing".

What happened?? We managed to get hold of the condo president sitting outside the building watching the parade, and said we need a board resolution, or it won't close. It helped that his wife was also the sales agent. So, he said he'll go inside a few minutes, he'll type one up, sign it, and I have to come on down to get it from him. I heard it sounded he was unhappy he'll miss a few minutes of the parade.

What was memorable about this is I have to walk through the parade to get to his condo, and I was glad my attorney was as stubborn as he is about this. The closing went "on hold", with my attorney, the bank attorney waiting, while I went down to get the paperwork, I was pissed I had to do it, not realizing how important it was. I got back an hour later.

We heard nothing for the first half dozen years, then after 2 management company changes, suddenly, the PM firm sent a letter, and asked when we got the approval to rent?? Well, we keep a copy of the board resolution in our safety deposit box, got it, made a copy, fax it to them, and it would shut them up for a while.

Then, a year later, we got the exact same request. I had heard others without an attorney with the forethought of mine had extreme difficulty, and couldn't come up with the answer to "who gave you the permission to rent". Imagine if you bought a condo to rent out, with the proviso, "as long as the HOA approves it", then a number of years later, the HOA says they don't keep records of it, can't find it, what are you going to do??

And NO, we are not going to move from NY to live in our MA condo because the HOA has no records.

And I lived in condos where some spaces, in the underground garage is INCLUDED in the deed, and others, outside, is not, and assigned by the HOA, which by the way, can make it common. But I have heard of arguments later about the garage space, that while the deed says it's number so and so, it didn't preclude the HOA coming in, and redrawing the lines, re-numbering them, so your number 5 can be on the other side, and narrower.

This is because the deed doesn't say where "number 5 is", and how wide it has to be.

Bottomline, if you are going to pursue this on the basis of whether it is legal or not, as bad as it may sound, since you have NO WRITTEN RECORDS from the HOA, you would have to sue the HOA.

If on the other hand, you are looking at it as an internal matter, I would pass petitons around, and because it just came up, I'm sure most of the people there would prefer to have two assigned spaces as I would, your chances of keeping things the way they are are good.

Now, you can't sit back if this is important. I would get a lawyer and pass petitions around. Just to add that if it was my attorney handling it, he would've insisted on a resolution from the HOA saying parking space number such and such is assigned to unit such and such. Having said this, unless the CC&R's say otherwise, the HOA can change the rules later, but remember the CC&R's can be amended by the unit owners, and this approach or assigning numbers should be considered, as it is a valid option.

[Condo]

The condo documents clearly state the parking as "limited common areas" So according to that leagal statement they are owned by that unit. The spot is numbered, we were told it was ours and no problems for 10 years. The failure is that the HOA did not keep a record.
So I guess we sue them for not keeping the record.
They absolutely can not just declare these limited spaces as now "common" just because they did not record the assignments. Our Sales contract specificaly addresses which spots are ours. The Deed states that the condo documents dictate which spots belong to which unit. The condo docs also specifically say that space assignments cannot be changed without approval from the owner.

[SChinFChin]

The condo documents clearly state the parking as "limited common areas" So according to that leagal statement they are owned by that unit. The spot is numbered, we were told it was ours and no problems for 10 years. The failure is that the HOA did not keep a record.
So I guess we sue them for not keeping the record.
They absolutely can not just declare these limited spaces as now "common" just because they did not record the assignments. Our Sales contract specificaly addresses which spots are ours. The Deed states that the condo documents dictate which spots belong to which unit. The condo docs also specifically say that space assignments cannot be changed without approval from the owner.

I agree with you 100%, and add that assigned spaces has value, which would be lost as "common parking".

At my rental condo, I bought another one with my sister who is legally blind, and cannot drive. Everyone is assigned one space, including my sister with no car. At this place, if you have a second car, you can park at the visitors.

She bought it with me originally when she was single, does not own a car, and she rents the space out to others needing another space. Some families have 2, 3 or even 4 cars. So, an assigned space definitely has value.

They also have indoor garage space that one can purchase, when available, and we know of a single woman, who bought an indoor space, and had another one outside that's assigned, that she didn't need. So she rented that space to others with several cars in the family.

With assigned spaces, people needing more space can rent from others not needing the space.

My sister since married, to a wonderful fella, who shovels snow off the parking spot for an elderly neighbor, a retired school teacher. This neighbor is not well off, he refuses payment, so what she does is when I go up to visit, is have him move her car over to vistiors, so I can have a space to park when I get there. In essence, she is using the space to reward my brother in law. So this space has some value.

Furthermore, with the maintenance of the parking lot, presumably, everyone pays his or her share. Imagine my blind sister has to pay an equal share for a "common space" which she doesn't use, to be hogged by families with 4 cars, who pays the same maintenance fee. With the assigned space, she collects some rent, so she gets some value out of something she doesn't need.

Now, you mentioned there are 7 spaces for the 4 condos. Imagine you have two cars in the family, and a neighbor with with two adults who work at home, with 2 grown children with cars, so they are going to hog four spaces all day long. If they get visitors who come, hogs two more, and are you going to check to see if it's a visitor car, or a tenant car.

I can guarantee you won't have a space most days you get home.

At my rental condo, they have about 125 spaces for 104 units, so everyone gets one space , with about 21 visitors. Imagine it is "common parking". I know most couples have two cars, so you can expect if you work late, you're not going to have a space to park your car, when you get home, even if you pay your condo fees.

If it was me, I would definitely hire an attorney to sue, as parking spaces has value. The HOA losing the records is THEIR problem, NOT yours.

The HOA has to work out the issue with 7 spaces for 4 condos. I suggest they create another space, or permanently assign only one to one of the condo units, which presumably is what happened up till now, since it seems it's one short going back some years. Adjust the fees for this unit that is short, or pay the guy something if making a space is impractical. Do a "special assessement" for condos with 2 spaces to this guy with one space. And this guy may yet be able to rent a space from someone who doesn't need it. This would work out much better. Common parking is going to be a nightmare.

I'm guessing the guy with the one space threatened to sue.

[Condo]

Yes, this new guy has been the problem and has pressured the condo President from the beginning on this issue because he has one space. These spots are all under cover as the ground floor is parking with the 4 unit building above it. (Florida on Gulf of Mexico).
They suggested maybe creating another covered space but hell I'm not paying for it. This guy already paid $200k less than anyone else with the economic conditions being crap. I'm fine with sacrificing a few bushes for a new spot- but not paying for it. Not my problem that it worked out this way for the guy but he was told point blank by the Assn. when he bought what he was getting.
What I don't at all understand is why the other owners don't understand how owned parking has value- especially on the beach!! My wife's been saying this all along. She thinks it adds quite a bit of value being on the beach.
I am the one who is really affected here because these guys all live there and we rent our unit to tourists. So since I am not there he parks in my spots- not the other owners.
The new guy hates this rental stuff too also but again that's the value of this condo. He wanted to change that too but NO WAY- it's the heart of the condo docs and we all completely understand the value of it. It's the only Condo I know of on the island that allows rentals by the day if you wanted to. Most docs here stipulate monthly or weekly.
Back to the parking... if his contract gave him one space then he will have a hard time winning a lawsuit with no other evidence.

[SChinFChin]

Yes, this new guy has been the problem and has pressured the condo President from the beginning on this issue because he has one space. These spots are all under cover as the ground floor is parking with the 4 unit building above it. (Florida on Gulf of Mexico).
They suggested maybe creating another covered space but hell I'm not paying for it. This guy already paid $200k less than anyone else with the economic conditions being crap. I'm fine with sacrificing a few bushes for a new spot- but not paying for it. Not my problem that it worked out this way for the guy but he was told point blank by the Assn. when he bought what he was getting.
What I don't at all understand is why the other owners don't understand how owned parking has value- especially on the beach!! My wife's been saying this all along. She thinks it adds quite a bit of value being on the beach.
I am the one who is really affected here because these guys all live there and we rent our unit to tourists. So since I am not there he parks in my spots- not the other owners.
The new guy hates this rental stuff too also but again that's the value of this condo. He wanted to change that too but NO WAY- it's the heart of the condo docs and we all completely understand the value of it. It's the only Condo I know of on the island that allows rentals by the day if you wanted to. Most docs here stipulate monthly or weekly.
Back to the parking... if his contract gave him one space then he will have a hard time winning a lawsuit with no other evidence.

The way your attorney has to present it to the HOA is either they spend thousands in court cost, or just cut down some bushes, pay to have some concrete poured, or even use cheaper gravel, and make a parking space out of it, which may come out cheaper in the long run, and you have something to show for the expense.

And while you're at it, have the CC&R's changed to make parking spaces part of the deed, so you won't have to worry about a future HOA not finding their records.

The fact that you "rent it out" explains why they figure they can make it "common parking", and you're not there watching, as others are squatting on your spaces.