Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1

    Default Proving I Was Cut Off and Not Carelessly Driving

    My question involves an accident that occurred in the state of: Colorado

    Two weeks ago, I was cutoff by a driver and ended up rear-ending them. The officer sited me for careless driving even though I laid about a 70 foot skid mark, as documented by the officer, trying to stop when the other driver cut into my lane. Their statement to the officer, based on the police report was that they saw me coming and not stopping.

    My first thought is why would the driver be watching me in the mirror?

    Is it possible to prove this or am I out of luck? Is it possible to subpoena their statement to the insurance company? How or can I subpoena traffic camera footage? How or can I subpoena their phone records, because I believe they were on the phone at the time they changed lanes?

    NOTE: I have a meeting with Discovery, next week, to obtain a copy of the case file, which the clerk informed me only contains the police report and comments from the previous hearings. Is there any more I can do at this point?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
    Posts
    98,846

    Default Re: Proving I Was Cut Off and Not Carelessly Driving

    You can consider hiring an accident reconstructionist to evaluate the police report, photos, vehicle damages and skid marks to give an expert opinion as to how and why the accident occurred. Is it worth that type of investment? I don't know.

    Court proceedings are governed by the Colorado Court Rules. For traffic court,
    Quote Quoting Rule 9. Subpoena
    (a) A subpoena shall be issued only for the attendance of a witness or for the production of documentary evidence at final hearing.

    (b) A subpoena shall be issued to any county within the state either by the clerk of court at the request of the officer or the defendant, or by counsel who has entered an appearance in the case.

    (c) The service of a subpoena shall be by first class mail, if the person to whom it is directed waives personal service, as provided in Form B in the appendix to these rules. No fees or mileage need be tendered with service by mail.

    (d) If the person to whom a subpoena is directed does not waive personal service, the issuance and service of a subpoena shall be as provided in Rule 345, C.R.C.P., except as otherwise provided in this rule.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Proving I Was Cut Off and Not Carelessly Driving

    So do statements, camera footage, and phone records all require a subpoena?

    How much does a typical analysis cost for a reconstruction analyst? As this is a 4 point ticket, I am unsure if the cost outway the

    What type of evidence will the state bring in order to site me with careless driving? As there were no photos taken at the scene other then my personal pictures, I believe all that the state has is my statement versus the other drivers and the length of the skid mark.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Proving I Was Cut Off and Not Carelessly Driving

    Insuance company just came back and said I was at fault based on the review of the police report. Now I have a $70 month higher insurance premium, 4-points on my license, and a totaled truck for something that was not my fault.

    Since no investigation was done on scene and the other driver cut me off stating that they were in the same lane the whole time, they saw me coming and failed to stop, until I hit them, what options do I have.

    If this is truly the way the court system works, I will start cutting people off left and right. Once I get hit, I will simply state that I was in the same lane and saw the other driver coming and failing to stop. This sounds like a great insurance scam for those who go through with it. I would suspect that after 3 or 4 occurances like this, the insurance companies would catch on, but why should it take deliberate actions for the insurance companies to want to do somehting about claims like this.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Proving I Was Cut Off and Not Carelessly Driving

    Quote Quoting goofy78270
    View Post
    Insuance company just came back and said I was at fault based on the review of the police report. Now I have a $70 month higher insurance premium, 4-points on my license, and a totaled truck for something that was not my fault.
    So YOU hit another car, the police report said YOU caused the accident, YOU were cited for careless driving, the court found YOU guilty (I'm assuming that because of the 4 points), YOUR insurance company found YOU at fault... and it wasn't YOUR fault?
    Quote Quoting goofy78270
    View Post
    the length of the skid mark.
    That, by itself, might have been sufficient evidence that you were careless. Had you been driving with due care, then there wouldn't be any skidmarks and/or the accident would not have occurred. Your speed was obviously a factor too.

    Quote Quoting goofy78270
    View Post
    what options do I have.
    Go through the same process and somehow prove that you were not careless.

    Quote Quoting goofy78270
    View Post
    I will start cutting people off left and right. Once I get hit, I will simply state that I was in the same lane and saw the other driver coming and failing to stop.
    And how would that change the results for this accident?

    Quote Quoting goofy78270
    View Post
    I would suspect that after 3 or 4 occurances like this, the insurance companies would catch on, but why should it take deliberate actions for the insurance companies to want to do somehting about claims like this.
    My guess is that if you do this 3 or 4 times, you won't have an insurance company to deal with. You would be a high risk driver and they would drop you after your second or third time or charge you an outrageous insurance premium and you wouldn't want to drive.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Proving I Was Cut Off and Not Carelessly Driving

    So YOU hit another car, the police report said YOU caused the accident, YOU were cited for careless driving, the court found YOU guilty (I'm assuming that because of the 4 points), YOUR insurance company found YOU at fault... and it wasn't YOUR fault?
    I have yet to appear in court, but the ticket stands at 4 points. The insurance company found me at fault due to the police report.

    That, by itself, might have been sufficient evidence that you were careless. Had you been driving with due care, then there wouldn't be any skidmarks and/or the accident would not have occurred. Your speed was obviously a factor too.
    Refering to the skid marks, If a driver cuts in front of you, is it not due care to stop and try to prevent the accident rather than blatently run into them? If I leave enough room between me and the car in front of me, in order to stop in due time, and another car cuts that distance in half, what other result can be expected?

    Go through the same process and somehow prove that you were not careless.
    I am trying to, but I have not been able to find a site that discusses, explains, or mentions the effects of someone cutting you off and how to prove this.

    And how would that change the results for this accident?
    For this accident, nothing can change, but if someone happened to back into a pole or scratched their bumper on the curb pulling into a parking space or something, a no cost fix to the repair seems to be simply cut someone off and say that you were in the same lane the whole time. Free repair from their insurance company or free check depending on the amount of damage to the car (scratch, maybe pocket the money as some do) or a way to get out of a car payment that some can't afford, depending again, on the amount of damage. I can see numerous benefits to doing something like this, if it wasn't WRONG!!!

    My guess is that if you do this 3 or 4 times, you won't have an insurance company to deal with. You would be a high risk driver and they would drop you after your second or third time or charge you an outrageous insurance premium and you wouldn't want to drive.
    As accidents only stay on your CLUES report for 5 years, 1 every other year would probably go unnoticed. To the comment above, how often due drivers change cars or need a repair? I would guess that every other year would be adequate for most looking to get away with something like this. In addition, Since these are no fault accidents, your premiums do not go up, just the other drivers (me in this case) for being the supposed cause of the accident.

    How fair is this?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Proving I Was Cut Off and Not Carelessly Driving

    Quote Quoting goofy78270
    View Post
    I have yet to appear in court, but the ticket stands at 4 points. The insurance company found me at fault due to the police report.
    I can only assume that they took your statement as well as that of the other driver... That may have contributed to their finding as well.

    Quote Quoting goofy78270
    View Post
    Refering to the skid marks, If a driver cuts in front of you, is it not due care to stop and try to prevent the accident rather than blatently run into them?
    Sure, but if you couldn't stop quick enough, that might suggest that you were either not paying attention (careless) or driving at a higher speed than is safe (again, careless).

    Quote Quoting goofy78270
    View Post
    If I leave enough room between me and the car in front of me, in order to stop in due time, and another car cuts that distance in half, what other result can be expected?
    There is in fact, one more result.... “no accident”... but hey, I am not suggesting that you are guilty. That is for the judge to decide. As for “fault”, again, not my decision... that is the insurance company to decide. I only posted my opinion.

    Quote Quoting goofy78270
    View Post
    I am trying to, but I have not been able to find a site that discusses, explains, or mentions the effects of someone cutting you off and how to prove this.
    I highly doubt you will find a site that could make that determination one way or the other. Too many factors to consider, too many variables to sift through... Talk to an attorney... That ought to give you an idea on whether you have a legit argument or not.

    Quote Quoting goofy78270
    View Post
    Free repair from their insurance company or free check depending on the amount of damage to the car.... I can see numerous benefits to doing something like this, if it wasn't WRONG!!!
    Yeah, lots of freebies, including a possible free ride to the slammer for insurance fraud!

    Quote Quoting goofy78270
    View Post
    As accidents only stay on your CLUES report for 5 years, 1 every other year would probably go unnoticed. To the comment above, how often due drivers change cars or need a repair? I would guess that every other year would be adequate for most looking to get away with something like this. In addition, Since these are no fault accidents, your premiums do not go up, just the other drivers (me in this case) for being the supposed cause of the accident.
    Give it a try... if you think the benefits outweigh the risks for you.... then go for it!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Proving I Was Cut Off and Not Carelessly Driving

    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    Sure, but if you couldn't stop quick enough, that might suggest that you were either not paying attention (careless) or driving at a higher speed than is safe (again, careless).


    There is in fact, one more result.... “no accident”... but hey, I am not suggesting that you are guilty. That is for the judge to decide. As for “fault”, again, not my decision... that is the insurance company to decide. I only posted my opinion.
    If you leave the required 3 seconds between cars, when driving, and a car cuts in front of you cutting that distance in half, you now only have 1.5 seconds in order to stop given that they are directly in the center of the two cars.

    Based on the following equation pulled from a crash restoration site, it would take 2.12 seconds to lay a 70 foot skid mark at 45 mph, the current speed limit of the road, if my vehicle had a 1.0g level of braking which is attained in most sports cars and not an SUV.

    Since my distance was cut in half as mentioned above, there is no way I could stop in a manner that would have prevented the accident.

    The equation for time in seconds is t = Ve – Vi / a

    Where:

    Ve = velocity ending = 0 fps
    Vi = velocity initial = 45 mph / 65.97 fps
    a = acceleration rate fps²

    The average deceleration rate range for dry asphalt is -17.71 to -22.54 fps²

    t = 0 – 65.97 / -17.71 = 3.725 seconds
    t = 0 – 65.97 / -22.54 = 2.926 seconds

    The above equation is using the average. To use the 70 foot skid mark, we would use the acceleration equation a = Ve² - Vi² / 2d

    Where:

    Ve = velocity ending = 0 fps
    Vi = velocity initial = 45 mph / 65.97 fps
    a = acceleration rate fps²
    d = distance

    a = O² - 65.97² / (2*70)
    a = -4352.0409 / 140
    a = -31.08 fps²

    use the calculated a in the first equation gives you the exact time

    t = 0 – 65.97 / -31.08
    t = 2.122 seconds

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Similar Threads

  1. Medical Malpractice: Proving Cause and Effect
    By seacliff in forum Malpractice Law
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-15-2010, 05:31 PM
  2. Theft and Larceny: How Do I Go About Proving/Prosecuting, or Can I Even
    By tengue in forum Criminal Charges
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-05-2009, 06:47 PM
  3. Careless Driving: Did I Really Drive Carelessly?
    By lw1990 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-17-2008, 05:01 PM
  4. Child Neglect: Proving Neglect
    By Kazzy in forum Abuse and Neglect
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-17-2007, 04:45 PM
  5. Help Proving Paternity
    By dishartedinoregon in forum Paternity Law
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-29-2007, 10:55 AM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources